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  1. #1

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    Improving jumps by using motion capture technology

    Here's an article and video about the science of motion capture technology at the University of Delaware, using the example of Melissa Bulanhagui's triple Axel: http://www.ivanhoe.com/science/story/2011/03/832a.html (link fixed)
    Excerpt:
    Motion capture technology, the same technology used to develop lifelike movements in animated movies and video games, can record everything from the tilt of a skater’s head to the angle of her skate. Then, computer software creates a model of the body’s movement so researchers can see where a skater can improve.

    "Once we have the model of the skater on the computer, we can manipulate the model, go back and play the ‘what if’ game, so what if they move their arms into this position while they were in the air,” Jim Richards, Ph.D., Biomechanist at the University of Delaware told Ivanhoe.

    Forty-two markers are placed on the skater’s body. While 10 cameras in the ceiling record the markers movements. First, wire image simulations of the skater are made and then later 3-D models are created.

    Coaches and scientists can change leg and arm positions in the 3-D models to create different skating scenarios. Small body changes can help skaters improve their body position for better jumps and clean landings.

    “We can send them back out on the ice with a specific set of instructions in terms of what needs to be changed in order to improve the jump,” Dr. Richards said.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 03-08-2011 at 04:20 PM.

  2. #2

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    Sylvia -- the link isn't working for me -- can you fix it?

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    Sounds expensive, I wonder how much a skater/coach would have to pay.

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    Here is an additional link to the same info as reported at UD in one of their publications. Thanks Sylvia - really intersting.

    http://www.udreview.com/sports/delaw...logy-1.1428855


    barbk - here's another link to that article http://www.ivanhoe.com/science/story/2011/03/832si.html

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    It was a shame we didn't actually see an attempt at the triple axel in the video.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    It was a shame we didn't actually see an attempt at the triple axel in the video.
    Oh really? I assumed there was one (I watched very quickly). Bulanhagui has attempted the 3A at the Liberty summer competition for the past 3 years (there are videos on yoube).

  7. #7
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    No, there isn't, but that might be due to the reporters not telling the difference between a double and a triple. Perhaps they thought they were all 3axels.
    In my spare time, I like to interview figure skating legends.

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    Some coaches have been using DartFish which sort of does the same thing at a much lower scale. It's like those sequence of images of skater jumping presented by Chevy that aired during past Nationals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    Here is an additional link to the same info as reported at UD in one of their publications. Thanks Sylvia - really intersting.

    http://www.udreview.com/sports/delaw...logy-1.1428855


    barbk - here's another link to that article http://www.ivanhoe.com/science/story/2011/03/832si.html

    There have been a couple of other articles about the FS research at UD.
    This link was probably posted on another thread back in 2009 but I still find it fascinating (the video is on the left, middle of the page):

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/science/23skate.html

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    I doubt she is attempting 3axels, doesn't look ready for that. I think the author doesn't really know the difference.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    It was a shame we didn't actually see an attempt at the triple axel in the video.
    I saw at least two. Wait, maybe not. Must have been 2a because they looked pretty darned nice and easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Some coaches have been using DartFish which sort of does the same thing at a much lower scale. It's like those sequence of images of skater jumping presented by Chevy that aired during past Nationals.
    There is other affordable technology in use, although without UD's advanced computer analysis.
    I see that Sports Motion has a handful of figure skating users (the demo video happens to be of a baseball player):

    http://www.sportsmotion.com/about-customers.htm#FIGURE

    http://sports-motion.com/videos/play...r&LastName=smi

    -

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I doubt she is attempting 3axels
    No, Melissa really is (as I mentioned above), just not in US qualifying, National or international competition yet.

    I think the author doesn't really know the difference.
    The author is correct in this case about the 3A... but misspelled her last name 'Bulanahaguy' in the article.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The author is correct in this case about the 3A... but misspelled her last name 'Bulanahaguy' in the article.
    The wrong spelling showed up in the banner for the video clip too!

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    Here's a new article about the technology being used at the University of Delaware (Rippon, Nagasu, Andrew Gonzales and Frank Carroll are mentioned): http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2011/may/...ng-051211.html

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    Has Frank Carroll been working with Andrew Gonzales, as the article indicates?

    The technology is fascinating. Might be helpful if they were also working on an understanding of how to prevent injuries.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Has Frank Carroll been working with Andrew Gonzales, as the article indicates?
    Yes, as of this past season (2010-11). Gonzales placed 18th in Senior Men at 2011 US Nationals.

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    Has anybody watched the movie Ice Princess?
    The main character was a girl who studies physics and applies
    that knowledge to jump technique for skating.

    Yes, It's a Disney movie, but when I heard about things like Dart Fish first time,
    it sort of reminded me of that parabola created by a jump on the computer screen she was staring at,
    and I thought, "oh that could actually be a real thing!?".

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    Mishin has worked a lot on things like this, at the ice rink he workes with his students they use some technologies to measure the speed of the skater's rotations and on jump entrances (skaters from Mishin group like Gachinski told about it on interviews), it helps to recognize the mistakes in skater's technique and fix them. That's one of the reasons why Mishin's students have clean jumps

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    To me, the exciting part of UD's technology is the ability to run hypothetical scenarios. e.g. tuck an elbow then run the jump on the computer to see the effects on the quality of the jump. Seeing the outcome of the correction before attempting the jump seems like a great step forward! Granted it's not readily available as of yet, but fantastic that such advances are being used to improve the sport.

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