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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I'd no idea he hadn't retired already.

    Just an aside, but my pet peeve lately is when people put down the current generation of musicians by claiming how much better music was in their day.
    But popular music WAS better back in my day, (i.e. the Sixties and Seventies).

    Seriously, I realize this is just personal taste and nostalgia on my part. I also know that a lot of schlock got played on the air waves back then. However, imho, popular music schlock of the 1960s and 70s is superior to popular music schlock of today.
    Two Ray Stevens songs come to mind: "Guitarzan" and "Everything is Beautiful". Pure schlock both of them. The former is sheer nonsense, the latter saccharine treacle. But you know what? The first is amusing in a juvenile fashion and the second is a catchy tune. I'd never purchase either, but forty years after I heard them on the radio, I still remember both songs. In contrast, much of the popular music of today washes right over me without making any impression; not even a bad one.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    But popular music WAS better back in my day, (i.e. the Sixties and Seventies). Seriously, I realize this is just personal taste and nostalgia on my part. I also know that a lot of schlock got played on the air waves back then. However, imho, popular music schlock of the 1960s and 70s is superior to popular music schlock of today. Two Ray Stevens songs come to mind: "Guitarzan" and "Everything is Beautiful". Pure schlock both of them. The former is sheer nonsense, the latter saccharine treacle. But you know what? The first is somewhat amusing and the second is a catchy tune. I'd never spend good money to purchase either but forty years after I heard them on the radio, I still remember both songs. In contrast, much of the popular music of today washes right over me without making any impression; not even inducing eye rolling.
    It was better IMO. As was already mentioned, vocal prowess and the ability to play instruments were crucial. There were always exceptions, but most folks, regardless of their musical genre, had more ability than they do today. I only need to remember last years' Grammy Awards where Stevie Nicks had to sing next to Taylor Swift, and it was quite evident to me how things had changed, and not for the better. Of course, many of today's artists do have talent, and many put it to use, but they are getting rarer.

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    I thought one of the benefits of American Idol and shows of its ilk is that at least they will produce singers who can actually sing live without making people cringe (Katy Perry, looking at you). However, the advent of autotune has counteracted that....now ANYBODY can be made to sound reasonable with studio tricks, no matter how tone-deaf. I just heard part of Kim Kardashian's new "song"....

    Phil Collins was a great drummer and had some catchy tunes. I don't know what he did to become the classic rocker to be picked on. I mean, when you're the target of a South Park episode, you had to have done SOMETHING.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Er, um, I hate to sound like an old fart, but "back in the day" musicians didn't have Pro Tools, Garage Band on the Mac, AutoTune, etc. etc. to cover up their mistakes or their lack of skill. And it was really expensive to go into a professional-quality recording studio, so you weren't going to go in there if you couldn't play or sing really well and were going to majorly screw up. The Beatles' Sergeant Pepper album was made on a four-track tape machine; now you can get hard-drive recorders that can do up to 92 tracks. If you're only recording on four tracks, any mistakes are going to be that much obvious and that much harder to hide.

    I read an interview with some of the members of Blondie where they talked about how when their record Parallel Tracks was made, they had a very primitive drum machine to help with their tempo, and everything else on that record was them playing live. If you listen to that record, it's beautifully produced, and yes, it is a pop record and not tremendously "deep", but think of how difficult it would be to play that precisely. IMHO a lot of musicians today would not be able to play that well on their own without studio "help".
    THANK YOU!! Exactly.

    Sure there were talented youngsters back in the day (Stevie Wonder comes to mind) as there are now talented youngsters now (Adele, John Legend, etc) but most of the kids making money now are just mildly talented singers who are very good at marketing themselves. And they have a whole lotta producers behind them making them sound good. They don't actually have to know how to play an instrument, or run a recording studio, or set up their own equipment so they can play from club to club, etc.

    And actually, I never criticized today's music in my original post. I like plenty of today's music. But to find quality drummers and musicians is a tough thing. For example, I like Coldplay A LOT, but their drummer is lame. He plays the exact same rhythm for most songs. Drives me nuts.

    Gavin Harrison of Porcupine Tree, however, . That guy is constantly voted by magazines as one of the best drummers today. He's sick. And I bet none of you have heard of him. Shame really. Here he is playing one of their toughest songs in terms of drumming. He's amazing all the way through, but he really shows off his talents about 5:38.
    Last edited by manleywoman; 03-06-2011 at 11:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post

    Phil Collins was a great drummer and had some catchy tunes. I don't know what he did to become the classic rocker to be picked on. I mean, when you're the target of a South Park episode, you had to have done SOMETHING.
    Didn't he break up with wife number two, or possibly three, via fax? That's kinda....tacky.

    I'm not a fan of his solo stuff, but I love the Genesis song Abacab.

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    Check out this drum duet of Phil Collins and Chester Thompson. Good stuff.

    (Could anyone skate to it?)
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  8. #28

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    I understand that people may have been to harsh on him and his music, but he still didn't deserve that Oscar .
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  9. #29
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    This article has a few more quotes from the FHM magazine article that seems to be generating all the coverage:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...l-miss-me.html

    I've always found Phil Collins to be a bit of a whiner - always looking for attention and sympathy. I remember when Keith Moon died, he made a fuss about not being picked to replace him by The Who. If he really wants nothing to do with the music business any more, why is he giving interviews? Could it be that his most recent album is no longer on the charts, or that he's trying to stay in the news ahead of the release of his book about Texas history? Or that he just wants fans to beg him for more?

    He's had a long and hugely successful career, so I can't imagine what he still wants, but it's gotta be something. I doubt this is the last we'll hear from Phil Collins.

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    I'm sorry Phil is going through the physical problems, but his attitude is quite curious. Whether with early Peter Gabriel Genesis, or later Genesis or his solo work, Phil has nothing to be ashamed about. Yet, he apologizes for his success? Why is he reacting to the criticisms? He could tomorrow go on tour solo or with Genesis and sell thousands of tickets and be loved by all those fans. Yet he is embittered by critics? He should be counting his millions and laughing all the way to the bank.

    BTW, IMO Phil isn't even in the top 25 great rock drummers. That doesn't mean he can't play, but his strength wasn't his playing, it was in singing and songwriting.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KHenry14 View Post
    Phil has nothing to be ashamed about. Yet, he apologizes for his success?
    I don't think he is "apologizing for his success"

    The exact quote from the article:

    "I'm sorry that it was all so successful. I honestly didn't mean it to happen like that. It's hardly surprising that people grew to hate me"


    My take on that: he's being sarcastic about the fact that when you are successful, there will always be someone trying to take you down.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I doubt this is the last we'll hear from Phil Collins.
    Well, it is sad news that he has top stop singing because drumming hurts so much....

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSatterwhite View Post
    My take on that: he's being sarcastic about the fact that when you are successful, there will always be someone trying to take you down.
    Exactly.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I understand that people may have been to harsh on him and his music, but he still didn't deserve that Oscar .
    Oh I like the song "You'll Be In My Heart" Do you know what other songs were nominated that year?

  14. #34
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    I think Elton John and Phil Collins had very similar careers, though somehow Elton in the end is still more respected. Both started around the same time, both had amazing early work, and then in the 1980s both their work got very poppy but still with a brilliant hit here and there, and then in the 1990s they seguéd into film and theater.

    Yet Elton seems to be very visible, while Phil faded into the background a bit. Maybe it's because Elton is gay, has had crazy costumes, was friends with Princess Diana, threw the Oscar bash every year, etc etc that he's more in the limelight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    I think Elton John and Phil Collins had very similar careers, though somehow Elton in the end is still more respected. Both started around the same time, both had amazing early work, and then in the 1980s both their work got very poppy but still with a brilliant hit here and there, and then in the 1990s they seguéd into film and theater.
    I think the issue with Phil is that he ended up taking over for an artistic genius and his tenure coincided with Genesis becoming more mainstream. Although Genesis was commercially more successful with Phil, people will always think Genesis was at its best with Peter Gabriel (and ironically, Peter Gabriel also became somewhat more mainstream in the 80's with So). It's the same situation with Sammy Hagar. No matter how many hits he had with Van Halen, in the eyes of the fans, he will never measure up to David Lee Roth

  16. #36
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    Funny you should mention Sammy Hagar - in contrast to Phil Collins, Sammy seems to have spent his career (which is more successful than many people might realize) relying almost completely on himself for validation, and apparently has little to complain about: new interview.

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Oh I like the song "You'll Be In My Heart" Do you know what other songs were nominated that year?
    UGH. Much better songs. It was one of the most absurd wins ever, and had it been for any other movie than one made by Disney, there's now way it would have been nominated, much less won. Aimee Mann's gorgeous Save Me, which was not only a fitting song for the movie Magnolia, it was the theme in a pivotal scene and is a haunting song aside from the movie, and Blame Canada, from South Park. Either of those would have been a much better choice than You'll Be In My Heart, which probably took all of fifteen minutes to write and score.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Er, um, I hate to sound like an old fart, but "back in the day" musicians didn't have Pro Tools, Garage Band on the Mac, AutoTune, etc. etc. to cover up their mistakes or their lack of skill. And it was really expensive to go into a professional-quality recording studio, so you weren't going to go in there if you couldn't play or sing really well and were going to majorly screw up.
    Yup... let's see these so-called "recording artists" of today go into a studio and lay down tracks the old-fashioned way, before there was any digital recording (analog recordings sound better anyway). Let's see how they do with overdubbing as it was done back in the late 1950's - you lay down one vocal track, and then you record subsequent tracks while listening to the original first track through headphones. As this was done on tape, you screw up, you have to start over again. You have to have the discipline to do as many takes as necessary to get the best performance and sound, even if it means 50 takes to get it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post
    UGH. Much better songs. It was one of the most absurd wins ever, and had it been for any other movie than one made by Disney, there's now way it would have been nominated, much less won. Aimee Mann's gorgeous Save Me, which was not only a fitting song for the movie Magnolia, it was the theme in a pivotal scene and is a haunting song aside from the movie, and Blame Canada, from South Park. Either of those would have been a much better choice than You'll Be In My Heart, which probably took all of fifteen minutes to write and score.
    Let's not forget the song from Toy Story 2, "When Somebody Loved Me" which is much more poignant and had more of an impact in the film than the song from Tarzan, IMO.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehudi View Post
    It's the same situation with Sammy Hagar. No matter how many hits he had with Van Halen, in the eyes of the fans, he will never measure up to David Lee Roth
    Correct. Van Hagar s*cked.
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