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  1. #61

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    Labs and goldens are the most popular dog breeds in the US (at least among large breeds). They are overbred and are subject to a lot of crooked puppy mill owners. All the dogs I've had as an adult have been adopted goldens. There are soooo many abandoned and abused goldens out there.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekatiivi View Post
    Yellow/cream white fur is a trait carried by recessive gene. If Anita's dog was Golden mix it is quite likely that it would not have the typical Golden Retriver colour. But of course you can never be sure!

    What comes to aggressive behavior, I have read that problem rising in both labradors and golden retrivers.
    He's not a yellow/cream Golden, he's quite red. But he really looks like a purebred Golden, even the vets have said that he probably is.

    Not that it matters to us, of course. Aside from the we have to do when someone runs up to us at Petsmart saying how beautiful our dog is and how much money we probably had to pay for him.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    He's not a yellow/cream Golden, he's quite red. But he really looks like a purebred Golden, even the vets have said that he probably is.
    White or red, it is the same gene anyway . It blocks eumalanin compleatly so only pheomelanin is present in the fur. Shade of pheomelanin can vary from almost pure white (Westies) to deep red (Irish Setters).

    Goos luck Amy for sorting things out with your dogs!

  4. #64

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    My golden is sometimes dog aggressive and is can be very territorial about her balls/toys. She did attack a small dog once and I had to cover the vet bill.

    Sometimes is a problem because it's impossible to address the issue consistently.The woman we board her with when we go away used a muzzle when she became aggressive and said that after, just the sight of the muzzle calmed her down. So I'll try that tactic now that spring is here and we'll be spending more time around other dogs.

    The general view is that goldens have become dog aggressive due to over-breeding. I thought Luna's behaviour could be explained by the fact that we we got her without papers and didn't buy from a 'reputable breeder' (was just way too expensive). She is very true to the breed in her love of retrieving and water, but not cooperative and biddable as goldens are supposed to be. And she has a real problem with impulse control when it comes to commands such as 'hold' and 'heel'.

    But I've also met papered goldens that aren't true to the breed. I know one whose come from a fine line - his dad is an obedience trial champ. And this dog is vicious towards puppies, recently cost his owners several thousand dollars due to attacking one. Dad just let the leash loose for a few minutes and the damage was don.e

  5. #65
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    When I bought my Golden, the breeder commented that there were some less scrupulous breeders who were breeding Goldens for watch dogs. Needless to say, she was appalled, so papers don't mean responsible. Temperament was as important in her breeding program as conformation. Copper had no aggressive tendencies at all.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  6. #66

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    I have had 3 Labs over 22 years, one yellow and two black. They were/are absolutely the loveliest sweetest dogs possible, have lived the last 9 years with 6 various grandchildren climbing all over them. Give them walks, balls, breakfast and dinner, and treats, and life is wonderful, the 3 year old still likes squeaky toys and a broken pop up ball too. Actually life is wonderful just chasing squirrels and or sleeping all day. The twelve year old was 9 when we finally got another 5 years after the first died. She took one look at her at the door, ran to get a toy, and stuffed it in the baby's 7 week old mouth. So they love each other too.

  7. #67

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    Just wanted to bump this thread to see how the dogs are doing now a few months later?

  8. #68

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    Okay, so the update:

    I got a local and not terribly expensive dog trainer to come and help. She wanted to let the dogs loose and see how they fight, but I said nooooooo. I'm still traumatized from the battle royale back in March! But after spending some time with the dogs, she said she thinks the main problem is Sadie Jo's bossiness. She thinks she's boss of the house, and she doesn't want Teddy around anymore, so... fights.

    We have to work on SJ's discipline, and she's getting better. She rarely jumps on people now, and she doesn't pull on the leash as hard when I walk her. They have to be together as much as possible so that SJ can learn that she only gets treats and cuddles whenever Teddy is with her. They both have to be kept on a leash at all times, because she will still go after Teddy whenever she thinks she's got a shot at it. The leashes help because I can grab her a lot quicker. But thankfully he hasn't sustained any more major injuries, though we did have a close call last week. I accidentally dropped SJ's leash and she instantly tackled Ted, but I pulled her off immediately, though one of her nails grazed his scar and opened it up a little bit. It was slightly oozy for a day, but it closed back up pretty quickly.

    The trainer is a very nice lady, and I can e-mail and call her as much as I want without any charge. She only charges for home visits, so she's still a big help. SJ still has a long way to go, but I know that she's not a hopeless case. It's a lot of time consuming work, but she is improving (however slowly it seems to me!), so I'm still encouraged to keep going.

  9. #69

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    Great news. Thanks for the update.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  10. #70

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    Thanks for the update. Glad to see things are turning around. If you care to share any pointers on how to reduce the pulling on the leash thing, I'd be grateful. My dearl little Gidget pulls on the leash so hard I have sore knees (from bracing myself from her pulling me off my feet) every time I walk her.

  11. #71

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    Thanks for the update! I am so glad you have a plan. I know it must have felt hopeless for a while. Keep up the work, it will be worth it!
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  12. #72

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    Flatfoote, I use one of these http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-accessori...8/halti-headco (the Halti headcollar)

    with this body harness http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...w=1280&bih=673 and a double ended lead - they work really well. (I dogsit/walk a large Rottweiler.)

    I also took her to dog training sessions to learn the click-treat system which was extremely useful although I don't need the clicker anymore.
    Last edited by skatefan; 06-10-2011 at 10:26 PM. Reason: previous link didn't work

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy L View Post
    The female has never been great with other animals. She's a cuddly sweetheart with all humans, but she with smaller animals it's like the dinner bell goes off in her head. She regularly hunts and eats lizards, I've seen her catch and eat a small bird. Lately, within this past week, I heard her barking madly in the back yard. When I went to investigate, she had a raccoon cornered. The first time I got her away, but then it happened the next day and she actually caught the raccoon in her mouth. I told her to drop it and leave it, and she listened to me. My male dog is a few dozen pounds heavier than her, and usually he definitely has an "omega dog" kind of disposition. Until now. I don't know if she's decided to move on to bigger prey (my male dog) or if she's in a roid rage, or if my boy is sick and she's taking advantage.(
    I agree with everyone who has expressed concern that the dog had a raccoon cornered during the day. Raccoons are nocturnal and rarely are seen during the day, unless they are sick (usually rabies). However, I think it takes some time for rabies to become active in the infected dog, I don't know if your dog would have become aggressive after a few days from a rabid raccoon.

    I bolded a very important statement you made re: the female. If the dog has a history of being aggressive with other animals, you may have a problem. It could be that she was less aggressive before, but now she has a taste of hunting and going in for the kill. That can make the dog more aggressive. My dog was attacked by a golden, which tried to kill him. Both dogs were leashed, the golden got away from the person walking it and had my dog in it's teeth so fast, I didn't even know what was happening. It had my dog by the throat and was shaking it. The owner managed to get the dog off of my little Cavalier, but my dog had to have his shoulder surgically cleaned out an 6 drains put in. He now has scar tissue which bothers his shoulder. The owner had just rescued this golden and when it attacked my dog, they did some research, it apparently had killed other animals before. My vet said the way my dog was attacked was a definite kill attack and that dogs who go after small animals get more and more aggressive. Be careful!

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy L View Post
    Okay, so the update:
    SJ still has a long way to go, but I know that she's not a hopeless case. It's a lot of time consuming work, but she is improving (however slowly it seems to me!), so I'm still encouraged to keep going.
    Excellent news and keep up the good work.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I agree with everyone who has expressed concern that the dog had a raccoon cornered during the day. Raccoons are nocturnal and rarely are seen during the day, unless they are sick (usually rabies). However, I think it takes some time for rabies to become active in the infected dog, I don't know if your dog would have become aggressive after a few days from a rabid raccoon.
    She caught the raccoon at night. Then the next morning she found it huddled in a bush as she had injured it too much for it to move any further. If she had gotten rabies, she would have been indiscriminately aggressive and she'd be long dead by now. (the raccoon incident happened in April).

    My dog trainer said that her hunting small animals is a predatory thing and should not have anything to do with her attacking Ted. She is not confusing Ted with a small animal - - he weighs 40 pounds more than her. Her issue with him is due to her being a bossypants that wants to run the household.

  16. #76

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    If the raccoon incident happened in April, there's still a danger. When our dog confronted a raccoon years ago, I'd Googled and read that the incubation period can be from weeks to even a year before symptons show up. I Googled again just now, and read the same thing. So, just be careful.

  17. #77

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    I made a major typo, but I didn't want to edit since I got a reply already. The dogs started fighting in March, and I meant to say that the raccoon incident was in the month before, so it happened in February. Not April, duh!

    As I wrote months ago, the Animal Control person who picked up the injured raccoon said the raccoons in our area typically do not have rabies. They do however almost all have parvo and/or distemper. My dogs are both on schedule with their vaccinations, so that's where they stand health-wise at the moment.

    I was just saying that IF Sadie Jo had rabies, or is still incubating rabies, or whatever, that doesn't have anything to do with how she is treating Teddy. If something was medically wrong with her, why did she only change her behavior with ONE dog, but not her human family? Rabies is not so selective.

    My dog trainer says that aggressive dogs are usually either animal-aggressive or people-aggressive, unless it's a case of severe abuse and they're aggressive towards everything. One type of aggression doesn't cause the other, or one doesn't progress to the other.. Her animal aggression got worse (from Teddy's POV at least!) but she is still as people-loving as ever. And people seem to like her a lot more now that I've taught her not to jump on them and give them unauthorized tongue baths.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    The owner had just rescued this golden and when it attacked my dog, they did some research, it apparently had killed other animals before. My vet said the way my dog was attacked was a definite kill attack and that dogs who go after small animals get more and more aggressive. Be careful!
    I believe that the SPCA has the right to take action if a dog kills another dog. I don't necessary agree that the dog should be put down after one incident, but that dog should always be muzzled when in the presence of other dogs and should not be put in situations where there is even a remote possibility that a conflict with another dog could arise. It would really limit what you could do with the dog, but the alternative is putting it to sleep. A good dog trainer might be able to reverse the behaviour, but it would a lot of work.

    It may be true that dogs who go after small animals get increasingly aggressive. But in my experience dog aggression isn't always about size. My golden has had rare moments of dog aggression and it hasn't been about size. And I haven't known which dog was responsible, either.

    There have been some issues with small dogs but they have been because of the owner, not the dog. Some small dog owners are over-protective and think that because their dog is little, it can't be aggressive. This isn't true.

    In one situation my dog went to say hi to a small dog and the owner tightened up the lease, which signals to the dog that the owner is nervous or frightened and there could be danger near. The dogs got into a bit of a fight and the owner just stood there paralyzed, even thought she could easily have pulled her 10 pound dog back from the situation.

    A good rule of thumb is to keep the leash relaxed when your dog greets another dog. It may not prevent an aggressive dog from being aggressive - in which case you need to retrain greetings or avoid other dogs - but it will prevent aggression that arises from the dog's natural instinct to protect the human or itself.

  19. #79
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    In my situation, I was walking in the middle of the street (very quiet neighborhood), and the golden was being walked on the sidewalk. The dog had been adopted the day before and the family was walking it. What they did that was foolish, was allow an 8 year old to have the leash. As we passed, we all stopped to say hello. The golden launched at my dog so fast that the leash ripped out of the child's hand, I walk my dog on a short leash, so he was not invading the golden's space. The golden was so fast, that in the few nano seconds it took to realize it was not friendly, it already had my dog by the throat. (I know I shared this story, when it happened). I was never fearful of my dog greeting neighborhood dogs. I never tightened the leash, but I do now. I get between my dog and any other dog I do not know. Watching a big dog try to kill your dog, one time, is enough.

    The emergency vet told me that I had to file a police report. The dog was from another town, it had attacked a dog and other animals before. Our neighbors gave the dog back the next day, they were afraid of it. Animal control in our town needed the info on where the dog was from, so that they could contact that town and determine if it was it's 3rd strike.

    Amy, I don't want to disagree with your dog trainer, but as Japanfan said size may not be a determining factor.

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