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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    ...raw speed... It’s not an independent concept.
    Good points, and important things for some of us (me) to remember to keep it all in balance.
    I think we're saying basically the same thing, but your response is much more eloquent and complete.
    This has been an interesting thread.
    Thank you.


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    Last edited by geod2; 03-04-2011 at 05:06 AM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    As Ks777 said, the original poster was asking for people's opinion about their speed, not making a statement that these skaters are fast. At least, that's how I interpret it.
    Thank you, that's exactly what I meant

  3. #83

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    Last edited by os168; 03-04-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  4. #84
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    Which male skaters(retired & current) have the best speed?
    (New thread topic?)
    Last edited by EricRohmer; 03-04-2011 at 09:50 AM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseySlore View Post
    Laetitia Hubert skated scary fast
    I wonder how many of her many, many mistakes were induced by that crazy speed.
    In an interview in 1995, she said that almost all of her falls on jumps were due to her crazy speed, and that her new coach (Jean-Rolland Racle) was there to calm her down.
    But in fact she made as many mistakes after 1995 as pre 1995 !

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    I believe this thread is not about the raw speed.
    Every element is done at a certain pace or speed; i.e., speed gives the fundamental dimension in which everything is performed. It’s not an independent concept.

    On the performance side, skating with good speed gives the skater a wider range or freedom in changing the pace of the movement with different phases of the music and the various emotions associated with them. And having good speeds at right moments adds to the magnificence or the “wow factor” of the program.

    On the technical side, speed is one of the basic indicators of the skater’s level of proficiency and dexterity, as executing various elements with decent speed requires corresponding skills in coordinating the senses and the body movements, along with good amount of “guts” or conquest of fear. Imagine one tries parallel parking a car at 10 mph vs. at 5 mph. Not the same thing at all.
    Ah, but there is the rub, as a skater like Kostner who is consistently lauded for her speed lacks upper body control and appears to struggle from the waist up with keeping her torso in cohesion with the rest of her body. As such, speed can be detrimental to the aesthetics of a skater if she does not appear capable of keeping her body in-line with her legs and blade.

    Kim and Nagasu, who by all accounts skate with good speed are capable of keeping the rest of their body in cohesion with their lower body. Kostner and Hubert do (did) not seem capable of maintaining that same type of control over their upper body giving them the appearance of "flailing" and overall insecurity, whenever they were required to do something outside the realm of stroking. Asada and Kwan, on the other hand, while not slow by any measure, both sacrifice speed due to the priority they place on carriage and posture.

  7. #87
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    ^^ some of that may have to do with the build of Kim and Nagasu, who are more compact with broader shoulders than Kostner, whose very long limbs and narrower shoulders and hips seem to hurt her balance.

  8. #88
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    Mmm if i have to rate them out of 10:
    Kostner 10
    Kim 9
    Rochett 8
    Mirai 8
    Asada 8
    Murakumi 8
    Ando 7-8 (depends on how she fireup)
    Lepisto 7
    Flatt 7
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    Zhang 1 (Joking)!!

  9. #89
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    Kostner - 10
    Suguri (in her prime) - 10
    Kim - 9
    Nagasu - 8
    Lepisto - 8
    Murakami - 8
    Rochette - 7
    Wagner - 7
    Leonova - 7
    Asada - 6
    Ando - 6
    Korpi - 6
    Zawadzki - 5
    Czisny - 4
    Flatt - 4
    Zhang - 3

  10. #90
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    Suguri the fastest? In her prime she was very fast but not the fastest. Sandra Bezic even said after her Olympic free skate she lacks the power and skating skills of Arakawa.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Suguri the fastest? In her prime she was very fast but not the fastest. Sandra Bezic even said after her Olympic free skate she lacks the power and skating skills of Arakawa.
    I don't think she was a powerful skater but she did seem to skate very fast without much effort. I think she at her prime and Shizuka are about the same to me in terms of speed.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Suguri the fastest? In her prime she was very fast but not the fastest. Sandra Bezic even said after her Olympic free skate she lacks the power and skating skills of Arakawa.
    I've seen Suguri several times over the years, and even in 09 she still seemed crazy fast to me. In non-COP years she really FLEW during her footwork (Thank you, N. Sato!) and it made her stand out amongst the other girls.

    I think it's funny that there are so many different opinions here! You'd think judging speed would be more objective.

    Here are some of my impressions after watching lots of competitions over the last 10-12 years:

    I never found Arakawa to be super fast. The last time I saw her skate was at the cheesefest in Detroit just before she won her world crown in 2004 where she lost to Kwan. I remember at the time thinking that she and Kwan had similar speed (quite good, but not exceptional) but what was most impressive was the ease of movement/liquid crossovers and ice coverage in general.

    Sasha Cohen's basic speed and edging had a big improvement somewhere between 2002 and 2003. She was a little slower than some of the others, but post SLC, I never felt that she was crawling across the ice as I have often felt watching Rachael Flatt or Caroline Zhang. With Flatt, I think Tracey Wilson said it best this year: "It almost looks like she's walking instead of skating." Or something to that effect.

    I read somewhere in this thread that someone put Agnes in their "fast" category

    I haven't seen Alissa live this year, but to me it looks like she has made a noticeable improvement in the speed dept.

    Meissner really impressed me with her speed, though her posture could have been better. Emily Hughes would start out with decent speed and slow down considerably about a minute into the program.

    Johnny Weir, Evan Lysacek, and Nobunari Oda can be anywhere from quite fast to moderately slow depending on their moods.

    Jeremy Abbott has better speed than both of them.

    I didn't think Chan was particularly fast when I saw him in 09, but he looks faster now.

    I think the skater with blinding speed that really sticks out to me is Yannick Ponsero!

    Kimmie Meissner surprised me with her exceptional speed.

  13. #93
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    I like Peter Carruthers's comment for Kim speed.

    "The greatest thing for me about Yuna Kim skating is the fact that she skates at such a great speed. It's very fast. It's like a ballerina that's a speed skater." (after 2007-11 COR ends)

  14. #94
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    Mirai seemed to be slower this year but i wonder if it's because her nerves get the best of her and she doesn't skate with as much freedom and attack. At 4CC though in her LP she was flying across the ice but of course she wasn't leading and she just went out and skated.

  15. #95
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    Stupid question, but how exactly do you tell if a skater is faster than the others? Of course I can see when a lower level skater is noticably slow. But how to see the difference between, say, Kim and Kostner? What are we looking for, what are the things to pay attention to? Maybe it is easier to see the speed differences live, but on TV I find it quite difficult.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret View Post
    Stupid question, but how exactly do you tell if a skater is faster than the others? Of course I can see when a lower level skater is noticably slow. But how to see the difference between, say, Kim and Kostner? What are we looking for, what are the things to pay attention to? Maybe it is easier to see the speed differences live, but on TV I find it quite difficult.
    It all comes down to personal perception, I guess, unless you get them all lined up and compete. Therefore, some of the posters opinions here vary significantly. It also depends on the programme they skate too. It must be much easier to skate fast if the programme does not include intricate footwork / transitions.

    I think another distinction to be made is the number of strokes required to get to the top speed and how it's maintained without further strokes. I have rather limited experience of watching skaters live, but what impressed me most about Shizuka is how quickly she gets to the top speed after merely a few strokes - one and two strokes leading to a spiral, then she was on the other side of the rink within a blink! Well, almost. It was like watching men skate.
    I saw some younger skaters skate round the rink pretty fast, but I noticed they were busy stroking non-stop.

  17. #97
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    From what I've seen in competitions Suguri is very fast, although she does do a lot more work to get that speed.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret View Post
    Stupid question, but how exactly do you tell if a skater is faster than the others? Of course I can see when a lower level skater is noticably slow. But how to see the difference between, say, Kim and Kostner? What are we looking for, what are the things to pay attention to? Maybe it is easier to see the speed differences live, but on TV I find it quite difficult.
    You really see a lot of difference during practice sessions at competitions. TV makes it very, very hard to tell.

  19. #99
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    Look at the speed Fumie's carrying into the flip at around 50 sec. She's really flying down the ice! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dPQT...eature=related

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret View Post
    Stupid question, but how exactly do you tell if a skater is faster than the others?
    I think they smuggled speed guns into the arena.
    This too will pass away.

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