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  1. #21

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    No 3/3 probably better for all that backloading! why do a 3/3 when the bonus can rack up some points that could come with a 3/3 anyway. Plus by not doing a 3/3 she can get good GOE because she is a great jumper. So becaue she is a great jumper better not to push herself so she can get great GOE on the simpler jumps. She may have a great 3/3 but in her situation why would she do such a thing.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    I know it isn't gymnastics, but there is still an element of flexibility on many skills such as the layback and some variations on upright and camel spins.
    Then I guess we just make different use of the word "basic".
    As in spirals, basics are shown in the edge control and the overall quality of the edging; look at Kostner's spiral sequence from the past seasons: while she didn't achieve a full split position, the basic skating requirements were done better than most of the other top ladies.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillalive View Post
    Then I guess we just make different use of the word "basic".
    As in spirals, basics are shown in the edge control and the overall quality of the edging; look at Kostner's spiral sequence from the past seasons: while she didn't achieve a full split position, the basic skating requirements were done better than most of the other top ladies.
    I don't understand the trash talk about Miki's spins and spirals. Sure, they used to be really bad but now they are actually quite good. She has good flexibility in the I-spin and fully stretches/straightens her leg in her camel spin and spirals, and her extension and control in her spirals is much improved from 07. Now, she doesn't have the spins and spirals of Alissa, Mao, and Mirai, but neither does Yuna, and no one seems to think Yuna doesn't deserve to win competitions just because she isn't as flexible as some of the other skaters. Miki's strength is her jumps and consistency/conditioning, but her spins and spirals aren't a weakness like they are for someone like Rachael Flatt, they are adequate and earn the maximum levels and under COP that's enough.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    I don't understand the trash talk about Miki's spins and spirals. Sure, they used to be really bad but now they are actually quite good. She has good flexibility in the I-spin and fully stretches/straightens her leg in her camel spin and spirals, and her extension and control in her spirals is much improved from 07. Now, she doesn't have the spins and spirals of Alissa, Mao, and Mirai, but neither does Yuna, and no one seems to think Yuna doesn't deserve to win competitions just because she isn't as flexible as some of the other skaters. Miki's strength is her jumps and consistency/conditioning, but her spins and spirals aren't a weakness like they are for someone like Rachael Flatt, they are adequate and earn the maximum levels and under COP that's enough.
    I don't think her lack of flexibility on her spins/spirals are the main reasons people are underwhelmed by Miki's wins. It has more to do with her unengaging and dull choreography, and the fact that she is backloading all of her jumps in the LP in order to gain more points. While, I do agree being able to do jumps in the second half deserves credit but it's not so amazing when the skater seems to have a lot of time in the first half to prepare for it. Just saying.
    Last edited by miki88; 02-24-2011 at 06:40 PM.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I don't think her lack of flexibility on her spins/spirals are the main reasons people are underwhelmed by Miki's wins. It has more to do with her unengaging and dull choreography, and the fact that she is backloading all of her jumps in the LP in order to gain more points. While, I do agree being able to do jumps in the second half deserves credit but it's not so amazing when the skater seems to have a lot of time in the first half to prepare for it. Just saying.
    This is true. If you don't do much of anything in the first half how is "mid-loading" impressive? That doesn't just go for Miki though. I think she has a good spin-the sit spin where she goes sideways.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    This is true. If you don't do much of anything in the first half how is "mid-loading" impressive? That doesn't just go for Miki though. I think she has a good spin-the sit spin where she goes sideways.
    I am not so much upset on her TES score (although some of the GOEs she got for spins/spirals were a bit too much IMO) but her PCS scores are just baffling. Just because she skates well doesn't mean she should get such high scores for things like interpretation and choreography. Seeing her scores makes me sad for skaters like Akiko who really have to work for her PCS.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Just because she skates well doesn't mean she should get such high scores for things like interpretation and choreography.
    I know right? Isn't it a very typical 6.0 mindset on judges' part?

  8. #28

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    It is ridiculous to claim that the non-jump elements in a program are not athletic. They might be less risky, but they do take a lot of energy and stamina.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I am not so much upset on her TES score (although some of the GOEs she got for spins/spirals were a bit too much IMO) but her PCS scores are just baffling. Just because she skates well doesn't mean she should get such high scores for things like interpretation and choreography. Seeing her scores makes me sad for skaters like Akiko who really have to work for her PCS.
    Weather we like it or not, PCS score do reflect some degree to the TES score. Just look how Asada was getting mid 50s during her earlier GP and the score goes up to 63 range once she skated much cleaner. Alissa was getting 61+ when she skates clean and it drop lower at 4CC due to errors. I personally think her PCS are fair and when she skate clean, she got good PCS mark. When she doesn't, she had gotten lower PCS. Many skaters did beat her many times before on PCS mark, like Kim, Asada, Rochett, Alissa, Akiko, Kostner, Korppi, Lepisto etc.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akira Andrea View Post
    The interview of Miki Ando in the venue of 4CC (in English)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esVR5peKafs
    Wow, her english is really good! Thanks for posting that.
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I am not so much upset on her TES score (although some of the GOEs she got for spins/spirals were a bit too much IMO) but her PCS scores are just baffling. Just because she skates well doesn't mean she should get such high scores for things like interpretation and choreography. Seeing her scores makes me sad for skaters like Akiko who really have to work for her PCS.
    SOME of her PCS scores are a bit over the top, I agree, like interpretation when she usually has a blank look on her face. But I mean, I think we can all agree she has good skating skills, and she does have some nice transitions even though her programs are usually slow across the ice. She's a bit like the Joubert of ladies skating. Further, while her PCS are high when she skates well, they aren't super high, so I don't take too much of an issue with it as she's nowhere near to breaking PCS records. A lot of PCS is based on reputation anyway, and Miki's a former world champion who has been skating consistently well this season. We can see from her SP scores earlier this season and in previous seasons that the judges have no problem knocking her down a few pegs when she isn't clean. For me though, when Miki goes clean (which she often does), everything just sort of works. I find her elegant even though she's a bit bland and methodical. And you have to admit she's come a LONG way since her days of being a jumping machine with questionable fitness and stamina and cringe worthy spins and spirals.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    SOME of her PCS scores are a bit over the top, I agree, like interpretation when she usually has a blank look on her face. But I mean, I think we can all agree she has good skating skills, and she does have some nice transitions even though her programs are usually slow across the ice. She's a bit like the Joubert of ladies skating. Further, while her PCS are high when she skates well, they aren't super high, so I don't take too much of an issue with it as she's nowhere near to breaking PCS records. A lot of PCS is based on reputation anyway, and Miki's a former world champion who has been skating consistently well this season. We can see from her SP scores earlier this season and in previous seasons that the judges have no problem knocking her down a few pegs when she isn't clean. For me though, when Miki goes clean (which she often does), everything just sort of works. I find her elegant even though she's a bit bland and methodical. And you have to admit she's come a LONG way since her days of being a jumping machine with questionable fitness and stamina and cringe worthy spins and spirals.
    And this is acceptable?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Now she doesn't have the spins and spirals of Alissa, Mao, and Mirai, but neither does Yuna, and no one seems to think Yuna doesn't deserve to win competitions just because she isn't as flexible as some of the other skaters.

    Actually at 4C's Miki's total points in the long program for spins was higher than Alissa's. Not by much, but still I would have thought it would have been the reverse, with a bigger difference in Alissa's favor. Miki's spins imo are on the slow side.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Actually at 4C's Miki's total points in the long program for spins was higher than Alissa's. Not by much, but still I would have thought it would have been the reverse, with a bigger difference in Alissa's favor. Miki's spins imo are on the slow side.
    Oh my

  15. #35
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    Miki used to be far more flexible, including the Biellman

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6h_FJeVfXE

    (some pretty nice spirals in this program, and the quad)

    and a layback with a pretty good arch in her back:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4bxjcWdetw&NR=1

    (good flying sit spin here)

    But, like any skater, she's matured (quite beautifully) into a woman and also had her fair share of injuries.

    Her spins are respectable now, though I hate the sit position where she twists and grabs her foot. I wish skaters did more than the minimum three camel-sit-upright position in their combination spins, but with so many level requirements they're not doing multiple changes of positions anymore.
    Last edited by all_empty; 02-26-2011 at 06:57 PM.

  16. #36
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    Im sorry but Miki's 200+ score is just bull. With no 3-3 and just rushing jumps after 2 min mark? lol... Somebody plz explain to me how she got 2 and 3goe on her jump and spin. She barely had any transition at all on her jumps except for step sequence on few of her jumps but thats it. She's slow as usual too. Esp at spin, how the hell did she get 3 or 2 goe. I think she deserved lvl4 spin but great of execution? NO WAY!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Actually at 4C's Miki's total points in the long program for spins was higher than Alissa's.


  18. #38
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    I seem to be one of the few who actually thinks she deserves her high PCS. In my opinion her interpretation of music is actually really good, just not in a flashy way. But her body movements, especially arms, look to me like she feels the music... And also, she doesn't use flashy music either, I mean, her music is kinda subtle and melancholic. If she were to attack more, I think she wouldn't interpret her current music as well as she does now. The same goes with smiling.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankka View Post
    I seem to be one of the few who actually thinks she deserves her high PCS. In my opinion her interpretation of music is actually really good, just not in a flashy way. But her body movements, especially arms, look to me like she feels the music... And also, she doesn't use flashy music either, I mean, her music is kinda subtle and melancholic. If she were to attack more, I think she wouldn't interpret her current music as well as she does now. The same goes with smiling.
    I'm also one of the few, she just not expressive in the way people expect but I think she interpret her LP music really well. However I wish she skate faster, I would make her LP to be wonderful.

  20. #40
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    deleted
    Last edited by RumbleFish; 02-27-2011 at 11:40 AM.

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