Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,815
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Jump Combination Question

    I'm not sure if this is the right forum section, but I am relatively new to Figure Skating (I used to just watch the Olympics and Worlds occasionally)
    I don't really know much about the specific rules with Jump connections.

    How is a Jump Connection given difficulty? I remember something about adding the two jumps, but is that it? What about having a half loop? Also, how many jumps can be stringed together and still be considered a combination? And what about GOEs?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    The wiener takes it all
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Minor Planet Johnnyweir 12413
    Posts
    11,591
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1728
    Here is a quick reply. Others can give more details.

    How is a Jump Connection given difficulty?
    The IJS (international judging system) assigns each jump a certain number of points. More points = more difficult.

    There are two types of jump series:

    1. Jump Combinations
    In a jump combination the landing foot of a jump is the take off foot of the next jump. A three turn on one foot between the jumps without touching the ice with the free foot (or even with a touch, but no weight transfer) keeps the element in the frame of this definition allowing still to call it a combination (with an error).
    If the jumps are connected with a non-listed jump, the element is called as a jump sequence. However half-loop when used in combinations/sequences is considered as a listed jump with the Value of a Loop. If the first jump of a two-jump-combination fails to be successful and turns out as a “non-listed jump”, the unit will still be considered as a jump combination.

    2. Jump Sequences
    A jump sequence may consist of any number of jumps of any number of revolutions that may be linked by non-listed jumps and/or hops immediately following each other while maintaining the jump rhythm (knee); there can be no turns/steps, crossovers or stroking during the sequence (Turns are three turns, twizzles, brackets, loops, counters, rockers. Steps are toe steps, chasses, mohawks, choctaws, curves with change of edge, cross-rolls). A jump sequence, consisting of only one listed jump together with other non- listed jumps is not considered a jump sequence, but will count as a solo jump.


    I remember something about adding the two jumps, but is that it? And what about GOEs?
    Jump combinations and sequences are evaluated as "one unit".

    Jump combination: the Base Values of the jumps included are added. So, if jump 1 is worth 4 points and jump 2 is worth 2 points the combination gets 6 points. The numerical value of GOE for result calculation is related to the jump with the highest value.

    A jump sequence is evaluated as one unit. The Base Values of the two most difficult jumps included are added. The factor of 0.8 is applied for the sum. Following that the numerical value of GOE for result calculation is related to the one of the two jumps with the highest value.

    What about having a half loop?
    Starting with this season, a half loop in a jump series is considered as a *listed* jump (points equal to a single loop jump) and means that a 3 jump series with a half loop (jump + half loop + jump) is now considered a jump combination and not a jump sequence. Therefore, the full value of the jumps in the combination are used instead of the 0.80 multiplier.


    Also, how many jumps can be stringed together and still be considered a combination?
    3 maximum.

    Singles free skate rules:
    A jump combination may consist of the same or another single, double, triple or quadruple jump. There may be up to three jump combinations or jump sequences in the Free Program. One jump combination could consist of up to three (3) jumps, the other two up to two (2) jumps.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,725
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    To this I'd add one wish...

    I wish they'd specify a special value to my fave comination, 1-foot Axel/3 Salchow!

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at FSU
    Posts
    3,924
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2790
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
    To this I'd add one wish...

    I wish they'd specify a special value to my fave comination, 1-foot Axel/3 Salchow!
    Love this combo too. BTW 1 foor axel is also called a colledge named after Cecilia Colledge.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  5. #5
    Kostner Softie
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,534
    vCash
    1017077
    Rep Power
    1319
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
    To this I'd add one wish...

    I wish they'd specify a special value to my fave comination, 1-foot Axel/3 Salchow!
    I thought this counts as a 1axel-3sal combo, or did they change the rules?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,449
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970
    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    I thought this counts as a 1axel-3sal combo, or did they change the rules?
    It does. So it's worth a little less than 3S+2T combination, although it's undoubtedly harder to do.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL & Seoul, Korea
    Posts
    450
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    286
    I also have a quick question about a failed attempt for a jump combination. If a competitor has a trouble with landing of the first jump, does a step out, then successfully completes the second jump, how do they calculate points? I know it is called a sequence instead. But I'm not sure if they include the points from the second jump or not.
    Last edited by seabm7; 02-19-2011 at 07:32 PM.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,978
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    ^ It depends. In the SP, if that happens, the second jump counts for no points. For example it could be called a 3 Flip + Combo.

    I believe starting last season that a step out and a jump afterwards doesn't count as a sequence, since it would most likely involved a step in between the two jumps. So the first jump would be counted, but the second jump won't be.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL & Seoul, Korea
    Posts
    450
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    286
    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ^ It depends. In the SP, if that happens, the second jump counts for no points. For example it could be called a 3 Flip + Combo.

    I believe starting last season that a step out and a jump afterwards doesn't count as a sequence, since it would most likely involved a step in between the two jumps. So the first jump would be counted, but the second jump won't be.
    Thank! So they changed the rule. No wonder I got confused.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,815
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    His Weirness,
    Thanks for that explanation. It was really helpful.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Infected with the joy of skating!!
    Posts
    10,540
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    14026
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    It does. So it's worth a little less than 3S+2T combination, although it's undoubtedly harder to do.
    They did raise the value of the single axel this past summer. And going by the GOE guidelines, a 1a-3sal should get higher GOE than a 3sal-2toe, all else being constant.

    I'd like to see a 1a (1foot) - 2flip or sal - 3toe. That would be something.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at FSU
    Posts
    3,924
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2790
    Here's a question, what if a skater dis a double loop, but landed on the other foot and went into a triple flip or sal? As in Triple toe, double loop(landing on the other foot) triple flip/sal. I know it would be considered a three jump combination, but what would they call the jump between the first and third jump?
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  13. #13

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    132
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    831
    That 2nd jump would be a double half-loop.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,815
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    How would you do a 1axel into a 3salchow? Doesn't the axel land on the opposite foot? Would you need to change your turning direction on the sal?

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL & Seoul, Korea
    Posts
    450
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    286
    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    How would you do a 1axel into a 3salchow? Doesn't the axel land on the opposite foot? Would you need to change your turning direction on the sal?
    I think they were talking about a 1-foot axel, which lands on the inside edge of the left foot when the jumper is a CCW rotator, just like a half loop. So either a flip or a salchow is allowed as the second jump.

    Before the discussion, I did not know that 1-foot axel was a listed jump.

    I wonder, other than 1-foot axels and half hoops, are there any uncommon jumps which became listed recently?
    Last edited by seabm7; 02-20-2011 at 04:47 PM.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,725
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    I thought this counts as a 1axel-3sal combo, or did they change the rules?
    I know, but I'm wishing they'd give it a higher value due to its difficulty, hence driving more skaters to try it. I haven't seen one competed since Nicole Bobek at '95 worlds.

  17. #17
    Vacant
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Here and there
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,761
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7828
    So a Colledge is classed as a single axel? That makes zero sense to me when it's a completely different jump and to land directly onto a back inside edge and take off immediately into a sal is obviously very difficult to do yet it's worth less points on paper than a triple sal double toe! It's such a shame that great moves like this aren't encouraged more.

    Back in the '70's a few skaters experimented further with one foot jumps in combo's. Robin Cousins used to do amazing combinations using 1.5 flips, one foot double sals etc and Brian Pockar tried a one foot triple sal to double flip as his SP combo when the required jump in the combination was the flip.

    So I have a question for the FSU CoP experts. If a skater attempted a one foot triple sal into triple flip combo (theoretically possible), is there even a classification for it and how would it be marked? Also is there any current recognition of other jumps which have fallen by the wayside such as double inside axels?

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,725
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    So I have a question for the FSU CoP experts. If a skater attempted a one foot triple sal into triple flip combo (theoretically possible), is there even a classification for it and how would it be marked? Also is there any current recognition of other jumps which have fallen by the wayside such as double inside axels?
    ^This! Sometimes I feel we've COP-ed all the originality out of jumping with the fear of wasting an element on something like that listed by floskate.

  19. #19
    Tinami 2012
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    11,445
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    6863
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
    I know, but I'm wishing they'd give it a higher value due to its difficulty, hence driving more skaters to try it. I haven't seen one competed since Nicole Bobek at '95 worlds.
    Bobek splatted on hers. I think she did a one foot axel-double salchow in the qualifying round. IIRC, her only successful with this combo was at 1994 Skate America, when she did a one foot axel-triple salchow-double toe combination.

    Krisztina Czako did this combination, I think in 1996, and Emily Hughes also did it as a junior skater. I believe she landed it the year she went to Junior Worlds.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Age
    26
    Posts
    9,000
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1017
    I thought a 1-foot Axel didn't exist in COP? Wouldn't it be marked as a 1A<< if someone attempted it?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •