Evan Lysacek and his "quadlessness".

[Sylvia]

He [Goebel] was interviewed during Vancouver, and mentioned that the USFSA has not sought him out to teach a clinic or keep him in the loop. He mnetioned that despite working outside of skating in the financial district, that he would like to be more involved in the skating community besides volunteering for skating in Harlem, but has not been given the opportunity.

I've seen Goebel on technical panels at local competitions in the NY area for the past few years so he IS involved with USFS.

I am looking for the article right now.

Is it the one posted in this thread? (his May 2010 Senior profile at Columbia University's School of General Studies) http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73611

[Zemgirl]

Joubert was complaining about it for two years! After worlds in 2008 and 2009! It was just that no one thought an Olympics would be won without one so no one really cared that much until it happened at the Olympics and then there was the revisions. Many thought the revisions were coming anyway though-it was just a wait until after Vancouver. I don't know why though.

Joubert was complaining about the value of the quad well before 2008, even mentioning it after winning 2007 Worlds - IIRC, because he thought not enough skaters had attempted the jump during the event. But he was one skater expressing a point of view that wasn't necessarily popular, so why would it have had an effect? It takes time to see how trends in skating develop, and like Proustable wrote, you usually don't see major changes until after the Olympics. Certainly the value of the quad is not the only major change to have come out of the 2010 ISU congress.

I didn't watch the men's event at the Olympics in real time and had zero interest in watching it after, so I can't comment as to the merits of Lysacek's performance there. I do think that winning 2009 Worlds played a major role in getting him to the top of the podium in Vancouver, as he got a nice PCS bonus out of it and a political and media push he might not have had otherwise. But he still had to go on the ice and skate the best performances he could, and he did. There were many skaters who could have kept him off the podium entirely, but none of delivered when it counted. Whatever faults were (and are) in the system and however much I personally dislike Lysacek's skating, I can hardly blame him for that.

[caseyedwards]

Major revisions tend to wait until after the Olympics to give the skaters more time. There were a tonne of revisions made: the change in spirals and step sequence, the introduction of the SD, the overall reduction of elements.

Additionally, there were changes made BEFORE as well in terms of value. In 2008 (Buttle as WC), the quad toe was worth 9.0 points. In 2009 (Lysacek) the quad was worth 9.8. But major revisions happen after major events, not before.

Joubert was complaining about the value of the quad well before 2008, even mentioning it after winning 2007 Worlds - IIRC, because he thought not enough skaters had attempted the jump during the event. But he was one skater expressing a point of view that wasn't necessarily popular, so why would it have had an effect? It takes time to see how trends in skating develop, and like Proustable wrote, you usually don't see major changes until after the Olympics. Certainly the value of the quad is not the only major change to have come out of the 2010 ISU congress.

These posts made me think of maybe the most important revision which was not increasing the value of the quad but reducing the risk of failing! The toe is the easiest jump and and the best bet to do a quad of. In 2008 Takahashi did a quad and got 10.43 from a BV of 9 points. When he tried for another URed and fell in an attempt to do a combo 0.20 points. Obviously the risk of failure became far too great for that element! The rules changed for all the jumps and all disciplines but because the men was the only one experiencing technical regression that had to be the main reason for the new < underrotate and << downgrade marks.

Now you can ur and fall without risking a zero or negative points actually. Takahashi in 2010 really got zero on his attempt but in 2008 I guess you can say because he fell in his attempt at a quad then in reality .80 was deducted from his score for attempting.

So the new rules which feature underrotate and downgrade (rather than just downgrading )and are no longer so harsh probably has more to with it than point value. But the 10.30 points does make it more attractive to do.

[Proustable]

That's definitely true. The quad has a higher base value, lower penalty for negative GOEs and the under-rotate/downgrade rules. Those combined make it far more attractive for skaters.

[misskarne]

And once again, that says more about Evgeny's skating than it does Evan's. Evan is far from my favorite, but I thought he was better than Evgeny. But maybe you are right - the eye of the beholder, because I've always thought that Plushenko was an ugly skater.

Once again, eye of the beholder. And my eyes at the time were extremely naive, I knew nothing of the sport. Lysacek's performance left me going, bzuh? What happened? Why did he fold himself into those weird positions when he jumped? Why, oh why, oh why, did he 1) use that much hair gel and 2) touch himself so much!??!!? I considered it quite the creepy performance.

I wasn't blind to the fact that Plushenko's jumps were wonky, but I loved it. There was something charismatic, something fun, about his skating. Perhaps the judges (and a lot of people here by the looks of things) need a sense of humour upgrade? (Also, Scott Hamilton's "cat" moment was one of the best commentary moments of Vancouver.) This was a man who was strong and confident in himself, not hiding behind hair gel and a "heteromale" facade. And he was brutally honest and didn't care what anyone thought. I loved it immediately. My favourite Formula 1 driver, Mark Webber, is in much the same mold.

I did not hear anyone complaining about the value of the quad before the result of the mens competition. Hadn't the rules been the same for about 3 years?

Um, clearly you haven't been reading any press before Vancouver.

[Rex]

Once again, eye of the beholder. And my eyes at the time were extremely naive, I knew nothing of the sport. Lysacek's performance left me going, bzuh? What happened? Why did he fold himself into those weird positions when he jumped? Why, oh why, oh why, did he 1) use that much hair gel and 2) touch himself so much!??!!? I considered it quite the creepy performance.

I wasn't blind to the fact that Plushenko's jumps were wonky, but I loved it. There was something charismatic, something fun, about his skating. Perhaps the judges (and a lot of people here by the looks of things) need a sense of humour upgrade? (Also, Scott Hamilton's "cat" moment was one of the best commentary moments of Vancouver.) This was a man who was strong and confident in himself, not hiding behind hair gel and a "heteromale" facade. And he was brutally honest and didn't care what anyone thought. I loved it immediately. My favourite Formula 1 driver, Mark Webber, is in much the same mold.

Say what you want, I preferred him to Plushenko

[Yazmeen]

I always used to enjoy Plushenko's skating; however, he came to Vancouver with an ego and attitude that were far bigger than his skating. He didn't plan the program to maximize COP, he simply decided "I have a quad, of course I'll win with it, I cannot be denied." His jumps were off, his program was frankly a cheesy borefest where you could see him stop and do dramatics to make up for the fact that he was tiring, and his attitude, especially at the end ("how can you NOT give me the gold") did not help. Frankly, he should have come in THIRD at best IMO, even with a fall, Dai had a much better program.

There was only one "wuzrobbed" here, and that was actually Evan. He should have won by a bigger margin. Plushenko thought he could phone in a win with a 2006 performance. Unfortunately for him, it was 2010.

[Holley Calmes]

I'll take Evan's hair gel over Plushy's stringy, dirty-looking mop. NOT what I would call a handsome guy. Evan's not really my type, but at least he looks like he gives a damn and tries-spends some time with his appearance. But that's just my opinion. Plushy has a nice body though. Nice proportions.

You're never going to find a handsomer male skater than Eman. My gosh, that face! He is just beautiful. Johnny's beautiful, too, most of the time, and Charlie makes me flutter. Rocky's to die for. There's some Russian men pair and dance individuals who are just drop dead gorgeous. Plushy is not among them, and he is not improving with age. he really should do something about that awful hair. It looks dirty all the time and is never well cut. I wonder what he would look like with a shaved head???? Alexei still looks mostly the same to me, and he's got my award for the sexiest male skater of all time. I know this is a purely individual preference, and each to his or her own!

[misskarne]

I always used to enjoy Plushenko's skating; however, he came to Vancouver with an ego and attitude that were far bigger than his skating. He didn't plan the program to maximize COP, he simply decided "I have a quad, of course I'll win with it, I cannot be denied." His jumps were off, his program was frankly a cheesy borefest where you could see him stop and do dramatics to make up for the fact that he was tiring, and his attitude, especially at the end ("how can you NOT give me the gold") did not help.

Actually, I agree that he was obviously tiring at the end. I much prefer his Euros performance of the same program. However, I agree that it was a horrid program overall and I cannot wait for next season and his new programs.

But at least I made an emotional connection with his.


As for aesthetic preference, Evan is a six-foot-two stick who uses too much fake tan, hair gel and PR. Evgeni is a slim man with a regal profile and nice hair, although sometimes I wish it was shorter. Again, in the eye of the beholder.

Although Ilia Kulik beats both of them for looks.

[Rex]

I'll take Evan's hair gel over Plushy's stringy, dirty-looking mop. NOT what I would call a handsome guy. Evan's not really my type, but at least he looks like he gives a damn and tries-spends some time with his appearance. But that's just my opinion. Plushy has a nice body though. Nice proportions.

Plushy's coif looks like Linda Evans' Dynasty 'do before she put the curling iron to it. Eman is handsome yes, but too much makeup.

[Holley Calmes]

Although Ilia Kulik beats both of them for looks.

Now that's one thing I can really agree with you on!

But a "regal" profile?? YOU my dear, speaking of PR, should BE in PR! I mean that nicely.

[misskarne]

Now that's one thing I can really agree with you on!

But a "regal" profile?? YOU my dear, speaking of PR, should BE in PR! I mean that nicely.

Got me in one - university course: Sports Media.

[Rex]

But a "regal" profile?? YOU my dear, speaking of PR, should BE in PR! I mean that nicely.

I was amazed at how many women find Plushy and Yags hot looking. Neither one of them do a thing for me. But you're right, different strokes for different folks.

[let`s talk]

I was amazed at how many women find Plushy and Yags hot looking. Neither one of them do a thing for me.

Judging by your profile, your worries are unfounded. You are safe with both of them.

Straight women, especially beautiful ones, surely love handsome men. But handsomeness doesn't imply only face features. Masculinity is a littlle bigger concept. So, while neither Yag nor Plush have face features that could count as "super handsome," I can understand why some straight women find them attractive.

Perhaps the judges (and a lot of people here by the looks of things) need a sense of humour upgrade.

[IceAlisa]

I was amazed at how many women find Plushy and Yags hot looking. Neither one of them do a thing for me. But you're right, different strokes for different folks.

I am with you, Rex. But then I never was into Russian men, no offense to any on the board. Yags and Plush are of course very fit and athletic. I was a huge fan of Yags' skating and Plushy's as well, up to a point but don't find them in the least attractive. Le shrug.

[let`s talk]

then I never was into Russian men

...then they are blessed....

[IceAlisa]

...then they are blessed....

with you. Lucky them.

[let`s talk]

with you. Lucky them.

I am not married to a Russian and you know that. But unlike you, I don't have the stuff "I am not into [nationality] men," which indeed makes me blessed.

[ciocio]

Although Ilia Kulik beats both of them for looks.

[IceAlisa]

I am not married to a Russian and you know that.

Sorry if the facts of your fascinating biography slipped my mind.

But unlike you, I don't have the stuff "I am not into [nationality] men," which indeed makes me blessed.

Then feel free to sit there counting your blessings and feeling supercilious.