Evan Lysacek and his "quadlessness".

[Rex]

Why didn't Tim Goebel win a gold medal in SLC? He got robbed!

[falling_dance]

Why didn't Tim Goebel win a gold medal in SLC? He got robbed!

I know. Goebel managed twice as many clean quads as Plushenko over two phases of competition!

[SwingDancer]

Why didn't Tim Goebel win a gold medal in SLC? He got robbed!

I totally agree he out jumped both Yagudin and Plushenko, he was robbed of the world title in 2003 and abandoned by USFSA, shortly there after. He fell out of favor with the USFSA, infavor of non-quad skaters (I am a fan of Matt Savoie), and then after natioanls 2006, it is like he has been forgotten. Tim never appears in specials, shows, or even mentioned anymore. He was interviewed during Vancouver, and mentioned that the USFSA has not sought him out to teach a clinic or keep him in the loop. He mnetioned that despite working outside of skating in the financial district, that he would like to be more involved in the skating community besides volunteering for skating in Harlem, but has not been given the opportunity. One last thing, he felt that it was a travesty for Mens skating for the two previous world champions and reigining olympic champion to win without quads, it took away from the sports legacy.

I am looking for the article right now.

[Holley Calmes]

I thought Tim was a nice skater, but he certainly lacked artistry. Both Yagudin and Plushenko outskated him in SLC-I was there. These two were "complete skaters." Tim, alas, was not. I think he is the perfect skater to point to and said "quads aren't enough." That said, I am sorry for the way he seems to have been left out of the skating community. I always thought he seemed a nice young man. His arms always bothered me so much. They were "flippers." He had no clue what to do with them.

However and whatever, I hope he will find a niche and be able to contribute to skating. Wonder what happened?

[SkateFan66]

I totally agree he out jumped both Yagudin and Plushenko, he was robbed of the world title in 2003 and abandoned by USFSA, shortly there after. He fell out of favor with the USFSA, infavor of non-quad skaters (I am a fan of Matt Savoie), and then after natioanls 2006, it is like he has been forgotten. Tim never appears in specials, shows, or even mentioned anymore. He was interviewed during Vancouver, and mentioned that the USFSA has not sought him out to teach a clinic or keep him in the loop. He mnetioned that despite working outside of skating in the financial district, that he would like to be more involved in the skating community besides volunteering for skating in Harlem, but has not been given the opportunity. One last thing, he felt that it was a travesty for Mens skating for the two previous world champions and reigining olympic champion to win without quads, it took away from the sports legacy.

I am looking for the article right now.

Here is an article with Tim's comments re: the quad controversy at the Olympics:

http://currentskateofmind.com/2010/0...-stojkos-rant/

[leafygreens]

I totally agree he out jumped both Yagudin and Plushenko, he was robbed of the world title in 2003 and abandoned by USFSA, shortly there after. He fell out of favor with the USFSA, infavor of non-quad skaters (I am a fan of Matt Savoie), and then after natioanls 2006, it is like he has been forgotten. Tim never appears in specials, shows, or even mentioned anymore. He was interviewed during Vancouver, and mentioned that the USFSA has not sought him out to teach a clinic or keep him in the loop. He mnetioned that despite working outside of skating in the financial district, that he would like to be more involved in the skating community besides volunteering for skating in Harlem, but has not been given the opportunity. One last thing, he felt that it was a travesty for Mens skating for the two previous world champions and reigining olympic champion to win without quads, it took away from the sports legacy.

I am looking for the article right now.

Why would the USFSA abandon him?!

If Plushenko had been humble and not such an asshole after the event he would not be as disliked as what he is now. It has very little to do with how he skated, although that was pretty crappy, especially for his standard. Face it, his jumps were off, and if he doesn't have those all he has is bad hair.

[kwanette]

One last thing, he felt that it was a travesty for Mens skating for the two previous world champions and reigining olympic champion to win without quads, it took away from the sports legacy.

He said this where? Because he didn't say this in the linked article cited by Skatefan66

[Rex]

I totally agree he out jumped both Yagudin and Plushenko, he was robbed of the world title in 2003 and abandoned by USFSA, shortly there after. He fell out of favor with the USFSA, infavor of non-quad skaters (I am a fan of Matt Savoie), and then after natioanls 2006, it is like he has been forgotten. Tim never appears in specials, shows, or even mentioned anymore. He was interviewed during Vancouver, and mentioned that the USFSA has not sought him out to teach a clinic or keep him in the loop. He mnetioned that despite working outside of skating in the financial district, that he would like to be more involved in the skating community besides volunteering for skating in Harlem, but has not been given the opportunity. One last thing, he felt that it was a travesty for Mens skating for the two previous world champions and reigining olympic champion to win without quads, it took away from the sports legacy.

I am looking for the article right now.

I thought Tim was a nice skater, but he certainly lacked artistry. Both Yagudin and Plushenko outskated him in SLC-I was there. These two were "complete skaters." Tim, alas, was not. I think he is the perfect skater to point to and said "quads aren't enough." That said, I am sorry for the way he seems to have been left out of the skating community. I always thought he seemed a nice young man. His arms always bothered me so much. They were "flippers." He had no clue what to do with them.

However and whatever, I hope he will find a niche and be able to contribute to skating. Wonder what happened?

He had that Esther Rolle thing with his neck too. He and Rachael Flatt are like the white Florida Evans of figure skating.

Here is an article with Tim's comments re: the quad controversy at the Olympics:

http://currentskateofmind.com/2010/0...-stojkos-rant/

Evan did not do a quad. Elvis is correct in saying that Evan’s jumps weren’t close to the techinical ability of Evgeny- they far exceeded his. Plushenko gave a gritty performance, and is a phenomenal competitor, but the jump quality was lacking. He barely hung on to his solo triple axel, and although Evan had a slight break in his axel combo, it was better. Lysacek did a beautiful triple lutz-triple toe, Plu barely squeaked by on his solo lutz, and did a scratchy triple lutz-double toe. Grade of execution counts for a lot, as it well should, and in every case Evan’s execution was stronger.

Oh, Timmy, how fecking wise you are. He pointed out the obvious. I wish he had mentioned Evan's smoother artistic presentation vs. Plushy's epileptic fits, however. But hey, I'll take this here...

[Holley Calmes]

Here is an article with Tim's comments re: the quad controversy at the Olympics:

http://currentskateofmind.com/2010/0...-stojkos-rant/

That was extremely well said. Thanks, Tim.

[senorita]

It has always been venomous toward Plushenko here-but not just here-pretty much everyhwere except Plushenko fan boards!

Is this some kind of If it hasnt been on internet it doesnt exist?Sorry but get out of forums and watch a competition. There are plenty of fs fans who dont hung around in forums of any kind. I know more about gymnastics than fs and i ve been watching way more years but I dont visit any kind of forums except for a greek blog.

Evan's smoother artistic presentation

In the eye of the beholder..I would never put these words together in one phrase, but that's just me. Btw Plushenko not skating well, being shaky and all, doesnt suddently make Evan an arteeest or a genius skater, he was better that night fullstop. Havent we talked in Gp this season that sp matters also? His sp was not-that-great for the 90s. If Dai was silver one point behind Lysacek I bet the reaction would be different about flawless Lysacek because they were a tie in sp. The whole reaction afterwards was not weather Lysacek should have won the Lp which he should but since the outcome was close by a point, the sp played its role as well.
The Vancouver debate is as interesting anymore as the debate I had with my dentist today to extract or not my wisdom tooth. :p But he took it out at the end.

[Rex]

In the eye of the beholder..I would never put these words together in one phrase, but that's just me. Btw Plushenko not skating well, being shaky and all, doesnt suddently make Evan an arteeest or a genius skater, he was better that night fullstop. Havent we talked in Gp this season that sp matters also? His sp was not-that-great for the 90s. If Dai was silver one point behind Lysacek I bet the reaction would be different about flawless Lysacek because they were a tie in sp.

And once again, that says more about Evgeny's skating than it does Evan's. Evan is far from my favorite, but I thought he was better than Evgeny. But maybe you are right - the eye of the beholder, because I've always thought that Plushenko was an ugly skater.

[orbitz]

I totally agree he out jumped both Yagudin and Plushenko, he was robbed of the world title in 2003 and abandoned by USFSA, shortly there after. He fell out of favor with the USFSA, infavor of non-quad skaters (I am a fan of Matt Savoie), and then after natioanls 2006, it is like he has been forgotten. Tim never appears in specials, shows, or even mentioned anymore. He was interviewed during Vancouver, and mentioned that the USFSA has not sought him out to teach a clinic or keep him in the loop. He mnetioned that despite working outside of skating in the financial district, that he would like to be more involved in the skating community besides volunteering for skating in Harlem, but has not been given the opportunity.

Tim's skating deteriorated after 2003. He never recovered skating-wise from whatever cause him to withdraw from Nationals in 04 and after Frank "fired" him. His quad went MIA and so did his 3A.The USFSA judges couldn't throw support around a skater that was obviously a shade of his former self and wasn't going to produce winning result anymore. ( I shudder at that ridiculous Night on The Bald Mountain program that TT gave Tim.)

As far as not being involved much in skating anymore, I always thought it was Tim's choice as he wanted to concentrated on his studies and getting into a new career. But that was just my guess.

[Rex]

I shudder at that ridiculous Night on The Bald Mountain program that TT gave Tim.

I saw it live - ugly! With that humped back and those flamey things on his jumpsuit, it was like Quasimodo came out of the closet or something. I felt so bad for him, because I actually enjoyed his FS at 2003 Worlds and thought that he could only get better.

I've heard at least 1000 different stories as to why he broke down, none of them pretty. I hope he's better now.

[Shatterpoint]

If Takahashi did land that quad he would have been more deserving than Plushenko for gold. I still think he would have been a great silver medalist if Plushenko won gold. Both Takahashi and Plushenko both believed that the jumping portion of a program should have a quad. Takahashi said he would not have been comfortable going to the Olympics and not doing a quad. Because if Takahashi landed that quad and then did everything else he did that night even with Plushenkos two quad triples - Takahashi really did have everything! He would have been the has it all - all around great skater. Lysacek is just not that at all. His jump ceiling is at triples-that is not moidern.

Just for the record, Takahashi insists on trying the quad for himself personally; because he is capable of doing it (and even landed two quads in a FS at one point), he believes he needs to go for it in order to do his absolute best.He doesn't insist that men's skating is merely dancing without it (like Plushenko or his coach have stated), but that it is important for him.

(I'm not sure if anyone really insinuated that Daisuke has done that, but I wanted the matter to be clear. )

[Holley Calmes]

Dai is a true artist. Plushenko can be "artistic" or "stylistic" but it isn't the same.

It's like when people ask me if I've seen that "Chinese Circus Swan Lake" You Tube thing that everybody and their dog has sent me this week. Yes, I have seen it and, and it's amazing. Fun to watch-fantastic. But it's tricks-well polished and stylistic tricks. Grimacing faces do not equate depth of emotion. It isn't art. (To me anyway. If you disagree, fine.)

Yes-skating is a sport, not an art form per se. But if art is to be taken out of skating, just have the jump and spin contests and be done with it.

[SwingDancer]

Speaking of Tim Goebel, what is he up to right now post skating?

[Andrushka]

Why didn't Tim Goebel win a gold medal in SLC? He got robbed!

[UGG]

I did not hear anyone complaining about the value of the quad before the result of the mens competition. Hadn't the rules been the same for about 3 years?

[caseyedwards]

Joubert was complaining about it for two years! After worlds in 2008 and 2009! It was just that no one thought an Olympics would be won without one so no one really cared that much until it happened at the Olympics and then there was the revisions. Many thought the revisions were coming anyway though-it was just a wait until after Vancouver. I don't know why though.

[Proustable]

Joubert was complaining about it for two years! After worlds in 2008 and 2009! It was just that no one thought an Olympics would be won without one so no one really cared that much until it happened at the Olympics and then there was the revisions. Many thought the revisions were coming anyway though-it was just a wait until after Vancouver. I don't know why though.

Major revisions tend to wait until after the Olympics to give the skaters more time. There were a tonne of revisions made: the change in spirals and step sequence, the introduction of the SD, the overall reduction of elements.

Additionally, there were changes made BEFORE as well in terms of value. In 2008 (Buttle as WC), the quad toe was worth 9.0 points. In 2009 (Lysacek) the quad was worth 9.8. But major revisions happen after major events, not before.