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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Rohene Ward.


    Rohene Ward.


    That's what fans of Rohene Ward are/were used to doing.


    Rohene Ward.


    *sigh* Ditto.

  2. #42

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    Some skaters just dont have the potential ability wise even at their best, and have been around long enough that it is apparent.
    UGH!
    "judgejudy", how would you feel if someone said that about you?

  3. #43

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    My favourites are my favourites, regardless of how they do in competition-many of them have been retired for years, like Lucinda Ruh and Toller Cranston. Sarah Meier hasn't competed very much in several years (except, ahem, Euros, whee!), but she's lovely skater and one of the best spinners in the world. Takahiko Kozuka has won some "important competitions" and just might win a few more, but I'll love his skating if he never ever wins anything else. Same thing for Jeremy Abbott, Alissa Czisny, Ashley Wagner, and Armin Mahbanoozadeh.

  4. #44

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    I am the one who started this thread. It's meant to be a friendly thread in support of skaters who haven't made it to the very top and probably won't.

    If anyone's interested in what inspired it, it was DorisPulaski's apparently friendly suggestions of other things Jonathan Cassar might do with his skating since he'll probably never get a triple axel, and all the threads here and elsewhere and the article from Phil Hersh encouraging Rachael Flatt to quit competing and go to college.

    I agree that it's often apparent at some point that certain skaters are never going to hit it big, and others who probably won't who clearly could if only they could put it all together.

    So what? Why not just enjoy what they each have to offer, at the level they can offer it?

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I am not the one who started this thread so spare me the ad nauseam. I am simply pointing out how skaters who always had obvious potential to achieve something like Paul Wylie are not barometers for all skaters.
    I agree with your second point, but I'm not sure why you're surprised to see a lot of other posters take the other view and point out they still enjoy seeing all these 'over-the-hill' skaters sticking around. You almost seemed to imply that once it's 'apparent' a skater doesn't have the potential to win a world medal after a few years of competing, they should considering throwing in the towel. As in, skating when it's obvious you could never win a world or Olympic medal is a bad thing. The way I looked at it, this was a thread started with the exact opposite purpose in mind --to point out some of us enjoy (and even *gasp* admire) skaters who keep competing for sheer love of the sport.

    I honestly couldn't care less about Gizmo's medal chances at the recent Asian Games. It was just nice to see her skating again. Even if she wasn't trying 3lutzes any more. She's still by far the best skater in her country and if she still enjoys competing...why shouldn't she?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    I am the one who started this thread. It's meant to be a friendly thread in support of skaters who haven't made it to the very top and probably won't.

    If anyone's interested in what inspired it, it was DorisPulaski's apparently friendly suggestions of other things Jonathan Cassar might do with his skating since he'll probably never get a triple axel, and all the threads here and elsewhere and the article from Phil Hersh encouraging Rachael Flatt to quit competing and go to college.

    I agree that it's often apparent at some point that certain skaters are never going to hit it big, and others who probably won't who clearly could if only they could put it all together.

    So what? Why not just enjoy what they each have to offer, at the level they can offer it?
    I think what is confusing people is the term "hit it big" it's very relative. Sarah Hughes won an OGM but she didn't exactly set the skating world on fire neither did Shizuka Arakawa, Kwan on the other hand didn't win OG but accomplished so much more in her career. So someone like Hersh can say Rachael should quit but who is he to say why she shouldn't grace us with her presence as long as she is able? Do we know for certain that Jonathan doesn't have the Axel?

    It would really be boring just watching a few skaters out there, I love the variety.

  7. #47
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    People have different idea of what type of medals constitute "important". Myself I think Nationals medals are "important" medals.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Well, that's just my opinion. I've been impressed by Jason's skating at Nationals, but he reminds me of Shawn Sawyer. I'm afraid he doesn't have the potential to improve his power to do the hardest jumps (triple Axel or Quad).
    But of course, I hope he will improve and win medals !
    The kid just turned 16. Give him a break.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It depends which medals you deem as important medals. However atleast in the following years I would say:

    Ashley Wagner
    Caroline Zhang
    Akiko Suzuki
    Kevin Reynolds
    Denney & Barrett
    I think that winning Nationals was an important feat for D/B last season. Suzuki also won CoR last season, and Zhang was successful on the junior level. Nevertheless, this may prove to be true for all of them in the following years.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    People have different idea of what type of medals constitute "important". Myself I think Nationals medals are "important" medals.
    Hmm, depends on which country you're talking about. US? Japan? Canada? I agree. Euro countries? not so much...

    If it's supposed to be a "friendly" thread, though, the title doesn't necessarily suggest that. It sounds as if it's more to list skaters who you are counting out- and as we've seen in history, and as many posters have said- you never really know sometimes. When you think someone is done, washed up- back they come. Alyssa Czisny is a good recent example (although maybe some of her most ardent fans stuck by her, most wrote her off). "Skaters with unfulfilled potential" might sound a little more gentle if that's what we're really discussing.

  11. #51

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    I can name some from the past. I absolutely loved Marina Kiellmann and she never managed a medal, though she was close. I am not sure if she managed a European medal, but let's face it, ladies competition at the Europeans is not the same as on the World stage. Lucinda Ruh was an amazing skater and especially spinner. She didn't have the harder jumps. I wonder what she could have done under COP. We have seen that a program with only up to 3loop can win a world medal!

    Currently I feel that Abbott fits this mold. He has time to take his name off the list and I hope he does but as others said, it is running out. If he never medals at Worlds then I truly feel he is one of the best skaters to not do so. When he is on, I feel he is worthy of the Gold on any given day! His performance at Nationals last year was better than the medalists at the Olympics, IMO. However, even when he performs quite well, he doesn't seem to get the International love and that puzzles me.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    I agree with your second point, but I'm not sure why you're surprised to see a lot of other posters take the other view and point out they still enjoy seeing all these 'over-the-hill' skaters sticking around. You almost seemed to imply that once it's 'apparent' a skater doesn't have the potential to win a world medal after a few years of competing, they should considering throwing in the towel. As in, skating when it's obvious you could never win a world or Olympic medal is a bad thing. The way I looked at it, this was a thread started with the exact opposite purpose in mind --to point out some of us enjoy (and even *gasp* admire) skaters who keep competing for sheer love of the sport.

    I honestly couldn't care less about Gizmo's medal chances at the recent Asian Games. It was just nice to see her skating again. Even if she wasn't trying 3lutzes any more. She's still by far the best skater in her country and if she still enjoys competing...why shouldn't she?
    I said nothing about skaters retiring in my posts. I never implied just because a skater will never win a World medal that they should retire, as if that was the case most skaters would retire. Saying which skaters I dont think will ever win a major medal (or atleast future one) is not my stating they should retire which I did not say. The only times I have said a skater absolutely should retire or turn pro are extreme cases like Mira Leung or Fumie Suguri (and not even in this thread). It seems some people have problems with reading comprehension.

  13. #53
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    The Swedish guys - Adrian Shultheiss and Kristofer Berntsson.

  14. #54
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    Joanne Carter.

    If she hadn't got injured in 1999 (before returning to Worlds in 2005), I get the feeling she was being groomed for international podium success.

    She really did have the technical content (certainly in practice, anyway) to rival the best.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    Lucinda Ruh was an amazing skater and especially spinner. She didn't have the harder jumps. I wonder what she could have done under COP. We have seen that a program with only up to 3loop can win a world medal!
    I think Lucinda's only good triple was the toe though. No amount of amazing spins and inbetweens would've gained her enough points to be even close to the podium at Worlds.

  16. #56

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    No, you are probably right. She occasionally landed her 3loop and 3salchow but even those were shaky and probably often UR. I think she may have gone for a 3flip at some time but not sure.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  17. #57

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    Against the late-90s ladies' field, depending what the rules were, Ruh might have been able to pick up enough of a lead over other skaters in nonjump elements to let her get further with triple toes and double jumps than she could under 6.0 judging where the "successfully" cheated triples probably helped her more than clean doubles, whereas it would be the other way around for the jumps in IJS.

    But by now, there are enough ladies who can come close to her content if not quality of spins, match her or better on steps and spirals and components, and also outjump her.

    She would definitely have benefitted more from the earlier IJS program content, with four spins in the LP, spirals in the SP, and levels for spirals in the LP. Even moreso if the rules allowed 5 or 6 spins (in exchange for fewer jumps) in the LP.

  18. #58
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    If there is a god Ruh would have medalled at Worlds last year with her best performances under COP. Heavens knows her spins are light years better than Lepisto's, her skating skills are almost as good, she was quite fast herself, and her overall presentation and performance is in many ways more enjoyable. Her spirals are atleast as good, and Lepisto's jumping at last years Worlds wasnt hardly any better than Ruh ona good day.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Jenni Vahamaa was one of my favorite promising junior. But we know she will never win a medal at Euros or Worlds.
    Artiom Grigoriev is another one. And Jason Brown !!!
    And Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron are my favorite junior dance team, but not sure if we will see them at the top of the World ! They are very young and in progress, so, why not ?

    I loved Jordan Brauninger. But he has won a World junior medal.
    Please tell me you're joking.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  20. #60
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    To me one should never considers any athlete out until the athlete put a definitive end to his/her career.
    Look at Maria Butirskaya, she was considered a lost hope for the Russian skating federation. And she eventually managed to be world champion late in her career.
    Allissa Czisny is a good exemple to of someone who once was counted out but managed to find a way to be a strong competitor.
    One never knows what can happen, either way actually.

    Sport is not an exact science, skaters have different ways to evolve during their career. There are standard pathes of course but there is some margin that shows that it's not because a given skater hasn't reached a certain level at 17 that he is done.

    Also, skaters who are on top are of course more known than others, but these other skaters are also very talented and eventhough they can't reach top rankings because of some weaknesses in the jumping area they still can demonstrate great habilities thanks to the fact that figure skating is not only an athletic sport, it is also an art.
    Someone like Lucinda Ruh is a great skater to watch, same for Fleur Maxwell. Both have something very original to offer other than jumps.

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