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  1. #301

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    I did. Will upload after class.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    I remember that, in the 70s and 80s, we in the West had our suspicions about many of the "flat chested" Eastern European female skaters in senior championships (although age limits were lower then). Ditto in gymnastics - especially the Soviets & Romanians, I recall.
    I don't recall that at all.

    Versus kvetching over "flat chested" skaters and gymnasts, I remember those suspicions being about "hairy chested" women in swimming and track & field.

  3. #303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    ....It just wouldn't make any sense to investigate Mexico, Japan or France because their is no reason to doubt their word. That has nothing to do with fairness and more to do with standard operating procedure. IMO....
    So if you were a TSA security officer at an airport, you would go straight for the guys with turbans and beards? Same logic. Maybe that's the wave of the future but not "PC" in my book (or in the American way).

    Beefcake, there WAS an investigation of at least one Romanian gymnast during the Comaneci era but I can't remember her name.
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    So if you were a TSA security officer at an airport, you would go straight for the guys with turbans and beards? Same logic. Maybe that's the wave of the future but not "PC" in my book (or in the American way).
    No. You "go after" people on the do-not-fly list because they already have terrorist connections or reason for suspicion. The Chinese have already been caught falsifying ages in the other sport where age limits keep young, talented people from competing at the highest levels and therefore suspicion is reasonable. As opposed to the Japanese, Koreans, Americans and Russians, who all demonstrably lost opportunities for skating medals because their skaters were too young to compete at Olys, Worlds or the GP circuit.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  5. #305

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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    I think some posters took screenshots of those webpages in anticipation that they might disappear.
    I hope the posters don't disappear
    Let's all be careful out there, you never know about retaliation...

  6. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    So if you were a TSA security officer at an airport, you would go straight for the guys with turbans and beards? Same logic. Maybe that's the wave of the future but not "PC" in my book (or in the American way).
    Have any of the other federations posted documents of their skaters' information on their Olympic committee websites, which include many "incorrect" birthdays? *That's* why the Chinese have come under investigation.

  7. #307

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    I feel like Louis Renault in Casablanca every time I read about this. "I'm shocked, shocked to see there's gambling going on here."

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Who gathers the information for the ISU bios?

    I really think the ISU/IOC is just as guilty for turning a blind eye for far too long.
    The skaters fill out the form prior to their first ISU competition.
    The skaters identity is verified with their passports which are presented by the skaters at the event accreditation. So the chinese skaters must also have had passports with wrong contents.

  9. #309

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    Screenshots:

    Cong Han
    Jin Yang & Cong Han
    Bingwa Geng 1
    Bingwa Geng 2
    Bingwa Geng 3
    Wenjing Sui 1
    Wenjing Sui 2
    Binshu Xu
    Yu Gao
    Zhang & Zhang

    I didn't get Han Yan or some of the other skaters, unfortunately. But I do have the original documents saved, which I've uploaded to Google Docs.

    2008/2009
    2009/2010
    Another 2009/2010
    2010/2011
    Didn't get the date on this

  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    But I do have the original documents saved, which I've uploaded to Google Docs.

    Didn't get the date on this
    I believe that's the "infamous" 10/29/2007 Excel spreadsheet that's linked from your post #1 in this thread:

  11. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    No. You "go after" people on the do-not-fly list because they already have terrorist connections or reason for suspicion.....
    No. Same difference. Nationality, dress, association = reason for suspicion in this logic. Your words: "reason for suspicion."
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  12. #312

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Beefcake, there WAS an investigation of at least one Romanian gymnast during the Comaneci era but I can't remember her name.
    Emilia Eberle was underage and looked like it. Bela Karoly actually signed up one gymnast to compete under another girl's name in 1981. And, yes that counts as breaking the rules as well. What I don't understand is how things that happened over 25 years ago make China's current situation any less damning. Other countries have done it before and their statute of limitations expired, so we should leave the poor Chinese Federation alone?

    I do feel bad for the skaters, especially the younger kids who were only 12-13 but asked to be 15 for ISU competition purposes. In case someone has to take the blame, it will be them instead of the officials who were too lazy to follow up on their own faked DOB's. That hardly seems fair.

  13. #313
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    Zhangs' comment on this: This is "hilarious".
    http://news.china.com.cn/txt/2011-02...t_21929490.htm
    and http://roll.sohu.com/20110216/n303196714.shtml

    Cong's comment on this: Not much to say. Who's in the clear will stay clear.
    http://sports.163.com/11/0215/18/6SV2J70P00051CAT.html

    Article: Age alteration a common problem in soccer and basketball
    http://news.sina.com.tw/article/20110216/4192373.html

    Effect of size: http://sports.xinmin.cn/2011/02/16/9322534.html

    Article about fan discussion of the situation: 冰迷称受中国花滑欺骗 斥12岁练抛四周跳不人道
    http://news.xinmin.cn/rollnews/2011/02/16/9323469.html

  14. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Article: Age alteration a common problem in soccer and basketball
    http://news.sina.com.tw/article/20110216/4192373.html
    Like that somehow makes it okay to fake ages in figure skating?

    Anyway, maybe it's the unfortunate angle, but Hao Zhang looks like he has a double chin. I used to find him quite

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Like that somehow makes it okay to fake ages in figure skating?

    Anyway, maybe it's the angle, but Hao Zhang looks like he has a double chin. I used to find him quite
    Sorry for the poor translation. This is a Taiwanese article. I don't think the tone is meant to be complimentary. The article discusses how the advantage re: size in pairs is temporary and the body mismatch will be a big issue in the long run.

    eta: Zhang's comment was on how they didn't compete all season and still there's news about them.

  16. #316

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Sorry for the poor translation. This is a Taiwanese article. I don't think the tone is meant to be complimentary. The article discusses how the advantage re: size in pairs is temporary and the body mismatch will be a big issue in the long run.
    Ah, that makes it clear. Sorry, I didn't make it seem like I was snarking on you! I appreciate the links/translations.

  17. #317
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    I remember this being discussed at least as far back as when Binshu Xu appeared on the junior scene. There were several articles where Chinese coaches mentioned her being the same age as Asada and Kim when her birth records stated her to be older by two years.

    I wonder how far back this goes? Was there any question about Chen Lu's age when she first appeared on the international stage?

  18. #318
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    Back when Chen Lu was competing girls could go to worlds at 13 (ala Kwan)

    Here's my post on the age rule (and I hope to get some clarification on specific dates when the rules changed)

    Just out of curiosity, when did ISU first require that skaters have to be 15 for worlds (and 13 for juniors)? I remember that 15-year-old rule being in effect some time after Kwan competed at worlds at 94 and 1995 at the tender age of 13 and 14. And I remember Tara had to be grandfathered in 1996 (or 07)? After that, you had to medal at JW to compete at worlds and ISU closed the loophole early in 2000s but I forgot which year.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Sorry for the poor translation. This is a Taiwanese article. I don't think the tone is meant to be complimentary. The article discusses how the advantage re: size in pairs is temporary and the body mismatch will be a big issue in the long run.

    eta: Zhang's comment was on how they didn't compete all season and still there's news about them.
    lol, this is laughable... this has nothing to do about whether you competed this season. You can be retired by now, but if you faked the age, people will still bring it up!!! i guess they just don't get it.. and I'm sure chinese fed had a meeting with all their athletes to teach them exactly what to say to the press.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lainerb View Post
    I remember this being discussed at least as far back as when Binshu Xu appeared on the junior scene. There were several articles where Chinese coaches mentioned her being the same age as Asada and Kim when her birth records stated her to be older by two years.

    I wonder how far back this goes? Was there any question about Chen Lu's age when she first appeared on the international stage?
    Chen Lu predated these age limits by a bit.

    She wasn't even the youngest skater at the '92 Olympics, which was Krisztina Czakó.
    The Junior Grand Prix: Where skaters who "come out of nowhere" come from.

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