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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupa View Post
    I will NEVER attend another event YuNa enters.
    they dont have pro comps anymore
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipaway View Post
    I have been catching up on this thread and am so impressed by the members of this skating board. Throughout the lengthy thread, there is always been excellent evidence presented to back up the accusations and now it's actually being heard and reacted to by the powers that be. Great job everyone.

    I do have sympathy for the Chinese skaters though. You know they have little to no choice in what happens to them.
    I'm impressed with the members who found these things out, too. I'm also separately impressed that it made an impact at all...I'd been following this thread but didn't have much to say because I'm cynical:

    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    Many of the gymnasts on that 2008 Chinese team did NOT look 16. I know some tend to look younger by default, but still- it was looked into, then quickly swept under the rug. As some posters mentioned, I hope they do get busted, even if it's years after the fact.

    Kudos to the people who dug up this info- it looks as if the report originated from evidence in this thread- and I hope it brings more scrutiny to the Chinese sports feds. They've done it before, and they'll do it again if there aren't serious consequences. If there is proof beyond a doubt that those athletes competed underage (or over-age), I think the ISU needs to come down hard...impose a ban on participation in any events, take away events from them...and if the ban includes an Olympic Games, all the better. Also strip athletes of any medals they may have won while ineligible. Send the message to everyone, to the world that cheating is NOT ok and will NOT be tolerated under any circumstances. Not fair to other nations to have to deal with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by brina View Post
    I have a feeling nothing will come of this, since all they have to do is print out the proper paperwork and send it over (whether the dates are accurate or not). What's to say the website isn't full of typos?
    Furthermore, let's face it. The IOC needs money, and the ISU more desperately needs money, and China has it, as well as general political clout.

    ------------

    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post
    My quick take on this: Asian girls/ women can look deceptively young physically for their actual age,so it’s unfair to automatically assume all Chi nese female athletes to be underage. OTOH,Chinese sporting feds have track record of fudging certain athlete‘s ages,let‘s face it,Chinese bureaucracy i sn’t known for being stellarly ethical。These two f acts don‘t have to be mutually exclusive of each o ther i.e. they can both be true. There exists a middle ground of assessing suspicions without all-encompassing assumptions that delve into ethnic or racial traits. This is where things can be interpreted as being r acially insensitive。。。。Iget uncomfortable reading  certain speculations about Asian physical traits a nd such,andI’m only partially Asian。 I guess whatIdon’t want to happen is for future skat ers to be presumed "guilty" before evidence or pro of。 We can be fair and judicious in our discussion s,that goes for both sides。
    This has nothing to do with race. For example, there is no current evidence for the need to investigate the ages of Japanese or Asian-American skaters.

    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post
    That‘s what is so hard in these cases now,because  we only suspect girls who look "young“ via Western standards.
    Gymnasts and skaters generally look younger than their peers because these sports (especially gymnastics) favor shorter, tinier bodies. Even "Western" 16-year old gymnasts look younger than other 16 year olds.

    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post
    Why not just presume ALL Chinese women athletes to be underage then? It’s such a tough call and an yone who claims there is a COMPLETELY fair way of  assessing and correcting these cases are either si mplistic in thinking or dead wrong。 We can only TR Y to be as fair and sensitive as possible。
    I don't understand what the issue is. It's a matter of efficiency - probe into the ages of those who look the youngest. Some may be caught, others may get a free pass. Partial justice is still better than no justice.

    And anyway, it's not just about being younger than one is supposed to be. Other Chinese skaters, it turns out, may be older than they claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by portia View Post
    Either way Chinese athletes are going to suffer be ing cast in suspicions, justly or not。
    Justly.

  3. #243
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    The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
    Well, I'm Chinese, but I really feel shame about this whole thing. It will almost kill me if ISU remove Cup of China as a punishment, but if it happens, it's what Chinese fed. deserves.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheriepopo View Post
    The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
    Well, I'm Chinese, but I really feel shame about this whole thing. It will almost kill me if ISU remove Cup of China as a punishment, but if it happens, it's what Chinese fed. deserves.
    Here we go....typos and mistakes and a plethora of faked documentation is on the way. And they will get away with it and continue to do it.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by brina View Post
    I have a feeling nothing will come of this, since all they have to do is print out the proper paperwork and send it over (whether the dates are accurate or not). What's to say the website isn't full of typos?
    The number of typos is just mind-boggling, no one would buy it. But I'm rather skeptical about the eventual outcome.

  6. #246
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    "I do have sympathy for the Chinese skaters though. You know they have little to no choice in what happens to them."

    I am not sure if the skaters and their parents really had no choice. Afterall, if one gets OGM, he/she will be financially safe (or even better) for the rest of the life. And if one gets it at younger age, he/she has plenty of time to do other things, like going for a college degree. Most OGMs got one from top university.

    "That‘s what is so hard in these cases now,because   we only suspect girls who look "young“ via Western standards."

    What I undersand is that someone found the data and brought up the issue, not the other way around.

    "The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
    "

    There will be some scapegoats for this data problem. Maybe some lower ranked staffs or IT guys.

  7. #247
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    Not a surprising news....it's a deja vu!

    China's a country that's growing strong and sadly they want to be on top and control everything no matter what. Keeping a 'good image' is VERY important. Sadly the governement is controlling all this. From political matter to Sports...It's still very communiste.

    Reminds me of that cute little girl who lip sang the national anthem at the opening of the Beijing Oly in 2008. The real owner of the voice was another little girl who was not pretty enough to appear in front of the crowd.

    I feel sorry for chinese skaters.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheriepopo View Post
    The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
    Well, I'm Chinese, but I really feel shame about this whole thing. It will almost kill me if ISU remove Cup of China as a punishment, but if it happens, it's what Chinese fed. deserves.
    Anyone should see it as suspicious that the dates at the website are "wrong" in a very peculiar way. In ISU bios "older" guys in pairs are listed as as junior-eligible, and the ages of the girls and pairs and single skaters are "increased". It's certainly not random. They can't simply brush it off and claim that a miscommunication occurred. (I use scare quotes deliberately as it is still only a suspicion).

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    (((cheriepopo))) I hope they don't remove the GP event - that would deter the growth of the sport in China and would punish innocent Chinese fans. Perhaps another form of "punishment" can be found if these allegations prove correct.

  10. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by equatorial View Post
    Anyone should see it as suspicious that the dates at the website are "wrong" in a very peculiar way. In ISU bios older guys in pairs are listed as as junior-eligible, and the ages of the girls and pairs and single skaters are increased. It's certainly not random. They can't simply brush it off and claim that a miscommunication occurred.
    I am not sure that the ISU is savvy enough to actually see it that way.

    All this just makes me angry. Just thinking how many girls really have to wait their turn (I agree with the age rules) and do so... E.g. Adelina looks really a lot more grown-up this season, if somebody had told me that she is 15/16 years old, I would have totally bought it. But she will have to wait two more years to go to Worlds.

  11. #251
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    Think of how many young girls were overtrained to perform at the level of skaters with more years of experience.

    China has a deep bench for skating - while these elite skaters may have been found out, there must be more underage/overage skaters still in training who haven't debuted for the ISU.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlloyd View Post
    (((cheriepopo))) I hope they don't remove the GP event - that would deter the growth of the sport in China and would punish innocent Chinese fans. Perhaps another form of "punishment" can be found if these allegations prove correct.
    As I have posted above, the punishment, if the allegations are proved correct, would be to bar China from sending skaters to international competitions at the junior and/or senior level, depending on the nature of the violation(s).

    I was the one who first speculated in this thread about scrapping Cup of China or moving it either for a year or permanently. I think a permanent move is more likely if the allegations are not proved correct; it would be way of dealing with the situation if a one-year outright ban on Chinese skaters is impossible.

    In some ways, it might be better for the Chinese Federation to admit any violations and to take its lumps. The consequences of not doing so could be much more severe in the long run.

    (Are you paying attention, you lurkers from the Chinese Federation? )

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheriepopo View Post
    The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
    Well, I'm Chinese, but I really feel shame about this whole thing. It will almost kill me if ISU remove Cup of China as a punishment, but if it happens, it's what Chinese fed. deserves.
    Chinese fed ... Sheesh

    ETA: Just checked out Sina news and comment columns ... apparently 90% of the Chinese posters don't believe in the fed either, as expected

  14. #254

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    So are Takahashi/Tran smacking their lips and rubbing their hands around now? If not they, then at least the Japan Skating Federation should be preparing a big floral bouquet for FSU! Kunichi-wa! Arigato!!!

    Looking for the positive spin in all of this....
    Last edited by Frau Muller; 02-15-2011 at 04:11 PM.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinDonShamu View Post
    Chinese fed ... Sheesh

    ETA: Just checked out Sina news and comment columns ... apparently 90% of the Chinese posters don't believe in the fed either, as expected
    Could you post a link, please?

  16. #256

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    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201...c_13733086.htm

    The Chinese skating governing body that allegedly changed the ages of these skaters is going to investigate itself?

    Most likely they are going to investigate who spilled the beans punish them accordingly.

    to FSUers who uncovered this. As always, this site is THE place to go for skating news. You guys make and break the news

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by equatorial View Post
    Could you post a link, please?
    In Chinese though ...

    http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2011-02-...65451621.shtml
    http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2011-02-...75452011.shtml

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201...c_13733086.htm

    The Chinese skating governing body that allegedly changed the ages of these skaters is going to investigate itself?

    Most likely they are going to investigate who spilled the beans punish them accordingly.

    to FSUers who uncovered this. As always, this site is THE place to go for skating news. You guys make and break the news

    Oh my...now they're puting the dirt on their skaters's face.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlloyd View Post
    (((cheriepopo))) I hope they don't remove the GP event - that would deter the growth of the sport in China and would punish innocent Chinese fans. Perhaps another form of "punishment" can be found if these allegations prove correct.
    I hope there could be another form of 'punishment' too, instead of removing CoC.
    A journalist friends of mine was working on an article about this this afternoon, and she said sport.org was shut down for a while to delete/edit those info.

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    Someone purging, Lord, Kumbaya....


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