Page 26 of 30 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast
Results 501 to 520 of 598
  1. #501

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Age
    34
    Posts
    12,637
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11519
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Unfortunately, in the court of public opinion China has been tried and found guilty. The ease with which they are able to produce paperwork on a whim makes any document they produce suspect.

    Fortunately for them, the only opinion that truly matters is that of the IOC and ISU and they will accept their documents and call it a day. Realistically speaking, what else can they do?

    I don't expect anything to come out of this beyond an oops "clerical error." Until the next time...
    But that's the thing, I agree, probably nothing will happen this time, but there has to be a better way for the future. The ISU will only sweep it under the rug if they, too, benefit. If they weren't to benefit, people would trust them to investigate. The fact that the ISU is not trusted is not good for skating. What's the solution to that?

    Barbk - the question is who would hire the team of genealogists from Taiwan? The ISU couldn't hire them, the ISU aren't to be trusted, and the same is said for the Chinese Federation.

  2. #502
    Title-less
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,703
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    I suspect a decent team of genealogists from Taiwan could get the job done. There are more corroborating sources of evidence than people often imagine, and I'd be surprised if good researchers couldn't find it. I don't think that the ISU is able to investigate the way out of a paper bag, so no, I wouldn't particularly think they'd be good at it.
    Taiwanese genealogists could do it, but 1) is genealogy a big hobby in Taiwan as it is in the US? I've never heard of people doing genealogy as a hobby until I've seen Americans do it. 2) Taiwan doesn't have much stake in skating as a sport but sending Taiwanese to investigate a mainland issue could be a sticky situation.

  3. #503
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    4
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    deleted
    Last edited by johnet; 02-17-2011 at 03:57 AM. Reason: wrong link

  4. #504
    Title-less
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,703
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I can't make head or tails of the China Daily link johnet provided, so I found this which seems to be the same story:
    http://news.ifeng.com/sports/zonghe/...714423_0.shtml

    Well, someone is following our discussion all right.

    Translated excerpt (by google):
    Reported that Zhang Dan / Zhang Hao of the "age gate" is the beginning of a figure skating forum by a foreign (www.fsuniverse.net / forum) be exposed, because there are users who post asked the youngest Chinese figure skater, in a collection process, users found that a number of players skating in China's domestic registration information does not match with the ISU. The day before yesterday by the U.S. media reported it only after causing widespread concern.

    Although the Chinese Skating Association initiative to admit error, an error message that parts of the site is grass-roots level in the transmission of information when an error occurs, but this explanation can not be friends of the identity, a more enthusiastic users find the 2009 "Wen Wei Po," the article called "Zhang Dan, Zhang Hao is the ups and downs of life," the news. Then a reporter interviewed Zhang Dan, Zhang Hao two, in which the article referred to "Hao was born in 1982, larger than the full 5-year-old Zhang Dan, the two 16 cm height difference, Zhang Dan Zhang Hao is only half the weight." Interesting that the information disclosed in this news co-registered before the ice "wrong date of birth" is the same.

    Yesterday morning, friends and then pulls out Yan Han, Zang Wenbo, Xu man's date of birth registration in the ISU are also discrepancies with the national registration information. Yan Han is a male single skater figure skating, figure skating in his youth group last year, won the runner-up Grand Prix Final. Prior to co-registration data in the ice, Han Yan was born in March 1994, ISU data than the "big" for two years.
    Last edited by jlai; 02-17-2011 at 04:17 AM.

  5. #505

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Age
    34
    Posts
    12,637
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11519
    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Well, someone is following our discussion all right.
    I thought it was well known that there are some FSU members who are Chinese journalists?

    I love google translate. Just to add another version, here's Yahoo! Babel Fish

    New bulletin news Reporter Liang Jing reported that opens the Dan/Zhang Hao “the age gate” most to start is (www.fsuniverse.net/forum) insolation leaves by a foreign country figure skating forum, because has the net friend to send the placard to inquire that China figure skating contestant who age is most young, in collects in the material process, the net friend discovered that has in the multi-names the national flower slippery contestant's domestic registration material and international does not unite the symbol slippery.

    After this matter the day before yesterday by American media report, only then has aroused the widespread interest. Although the Chinese Ice-skating Association initiative acknowledgment mistake, indicated that the website partial informations make a mistake, is the basic unit in delivers when the material presents the mistake, but this explanation cannot obtain net friend's approval, a warm-hearted net friend discovers in 2009 "Wenhui Daily" one named "Zhang Dan, the Zhang Hao Fluctuation Is Life" news.

    In the past Reporter interview Zhang Dan, Zhang Hao two people, the article mentioned “in 1982 was born Zhang Hao compared to opened the Dan enough big 5 years old, two person of heights differed 16 centimeters, Zhang Dan's body weight only then Zhang Hao's half.”What is interesting, this news disclosed the information cooperates the registration before the ice “the wrong date of birth” is consistent.

    Yesterday in the morning, the net friend turned out Yan Han, the good museum of cultural relics, the Xu personhood in international to unite the registration again the date of birth also to have discrepancies slippery with the domestic registration material. Yan Han is the figure skating man single skating athlete, he once taon the figure skating youth group grand prize contest finals' second place in last year. Before this in the ice cooperates in the registration material, Yan Han was born in March, 1994, compared to data which international united slippery “big” two years.

  6. #506
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,756
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    Emilia Eberle was underage and looked like it. Bela Karoly actually signed up one gymnast to compete under another girl's name in 1981. And, yes that counts as breaking the rules as well. What I don't understand is how things that happened over 25 years ago make China's current situation any less damning. Other countries have done it before and their statute of limitations expired, so we should leave the poor Chinese Federation alone?

    I do feel bad for the skaters, especially the younger kids who were only 12-13 but asked to be 15 for ISU competition purposes. In case someone has to take the blame, it will be them instead of the officials who were too lazy to follow up on their own faked DOB's. That hardly seems fair.
    What is the statute of limitations for age violations? Because there have been some shady things from Romania in the nearer past.

  7. #507
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    206
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    What is the statute of limitations for age violations? Because there have been some shady things from Romania in the nearer past.
    I believe 16 years for Olympics.

  8. #508
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Fortunately for them, the only opinion that truly matters is that of the IOC and ISU and they will accept their documents and call it a day. Realistically speaking, what else can they do?
    As far as I know, the ISU can deem the birth dates listed in the spread sheet as admissions by the Chinese Federation and disbelieve any conflicting evidence. That would be enough to warrant a one-year ban on Chinese entries at any international figure skating competition for one year.

  9. #509

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,872
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3930
    "age gate" -- color me surprised that the "____gate" terminology for a scandal apparently made it over to China (or at least made it into a Chinese-English translation utility.


    New bulletin news Reporter Liang Jing reported that opens the Dan/Zhang Hao “the age gate” most to start is (www.fsuniverse.net/forum) insolation leaves by a foreign country figure skating forum, because has the net friend to send the placard to inquire that China figure skating contestant who age is most young, in collects in the material process, the net friend discovered that has in the multi-names the national flower slippery contestant's domestic registration material and international does not unite the symbol slippery.

    Not real clear on what the rest of the sentence means, or how the national flower plays into it. I guess we can all get behind not uniting the symbol slippery.

    (I don't think this one went through the Google translator -- that one seems to produce more comprehensible Chinese to English than this would seem to be.)

  10. #510
    Recovering from the Olys
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    28,333
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    17170
    From the same source (ifeng.com) that jlai cited above:

    Can someone confirm if this is an editorial on the topic of age changing ("age gate") in Chinese sports? Google translated version: http://translate.google.com/translat...luoshengmen%2F

    Here's the original article in Chinese: http://news.ifeng.com/sports/pinglun...anluoshengmen/

  11. #511
    Title-less
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,703
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    "age gate" -- color me surprised that the "____gate" terminology for a scandal apparently made it over to China (or at least made it into a Chinese-English translation utility.
    They call it age gate (or age-door) in Chinese too.

    New bulletin news Reporter Liang Jing reported that opens the Dan/Zhang Hao “the age gate” most to start is (www.fsuniverse.net/forum) insolation leaves by a foreign country figure skating forum, because has the net friend to send the placard to inquire that China figure skating contestant who age is most young, in collects in the material process, the net friend discovered that has in the multi-names the national flower slippery contestant's domestic registration material and international does not unite the symbol slippery.

    Not real clear on what the rest of the sentence means, or how the national flower plays into it. I guess we can all get behind not uniting the symbol slippery.
    National flower slippery contestants - national figure skating contestants

    international does not unite the symbol slippery - Does not match (what is in) International skating union.

    You didn't know skaters are slippery fragile flowers did you?

    ETA:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    From the same source (ifeng.com) that jlai cited above:

    Can someone confirm if this is an editorial on the topic of age changing ("age gate") in Chinese sports? Google translated version: http://translate.google.com/translat...luoshengmen%2F

    Here's the original article in Chinese: http://news.ifeng.com/sports/pinglun...anluoshengmen/
    pinglun (in the url) is commentary in Chinese.
    Last edited by jlai; 02-17-2011 at 05:23 AM.

  12. #512

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Age
    34
    Posts
    12,637
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11519
    barbk - it took me a bit to understand the English national slippery flower bit, and I speak and read Chinese

    In Chinese, figure skating is hua yang hua bing 花样滑冰,character by character it is flower-type-slippery-ice.

  13. #513

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,872
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3930
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    barbk - it took me a bit to understand the English national slippery flower bit, and I speak and read Chinese

    In Chinese, figure skating is hua yang hua bing 花样滑冰,character by character it is flower-type-slippery-ice.
    Thank you!

    The language resources on FSU are nothing short of amazing.

  14. #514

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sending positive thoughts to Mirai..
    Posts
    3,685
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7566
    Quote Originally Posted by CantALoop View Post
    Wow, you can just smell the ink from the passport mill.


    Quote Originally Posted by cheriepopo View Post
    The Chinese federation made an annoucement today that after certain research both Dan Zhang and Hao Zhang's birthdates listed on ISU are proved to be true, they just submitted wrong info to http://www.sport.org.cn/ , as FSUers expected And many skaters claim that they had nothing to do with it and believe they'll be safe.
    Well, I'm Chinese, but I really feel shame about this whole thing. It will almost kill me if ISU remove Cup of China as a punishment, but if it happens, it's what Chinese fed. deserves.
    Of course they did. I never doubted it.

    It kills me too-that it's the athletes who will suffer the most if they were found out to have been cheating.
    Congrats to my ♥Baroque Rock Princess Adelina♥Meryl&Charlie♥Tatiana&Maxim♥!Team ♥Mirai♥Adam♥Julia♥

  15. #515

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    142
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Benedict_David - are you investigating all of the other skating countries too? I'd be interested to see how many errors their data and media produced. I know I've seen non-Chinese ages incorrectly reported before (Cheltzie Lee's age was incorrectly reported several times prior to, and during, the Olympics, yet I don't consider ISA or Cheltzie to be cheats).
    It is unrealistic for a single person too check all the info of all the other skating countries. However, being interested of the amount of typos/errors of other feds is fair enough. And other posters asked to look into other federations too for the sake of comparison and fairness.

    So, since I have no life here are my to samples: I compared the birth dates of to national team members on the respective official homepage with the birthdates on the ISU bios. (No syncro teams.)

    Japanease national team: 65 skaters. 20 skaters don't have an ISU bio. For the other 45 skaters there were no discrepancies.

    German national team: 58 skaters. 15 skaters don't have an ISU bio. For 18 skaters there were no birthdates on the fed's homepage. (Overlapping here.) Overall I was able to compare the birthdates for 33 skaters. No discrepancies here.

    That means I checked 78 skaters from two federations and I found not a single error/typo.
    The link to the "2007-document" in the first post isn't working anymore. How many skaters were listed there?

  16. #516

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Eagerly awaiting the Olympics!
    Age
    25
    Posts
    18,507
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6556
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    The fact that the ISU is not trusted is not good for skating. What's the solution to that?
    Well, that's a bigger question than just this investigation, I think.

  17. #517

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Age
    34
    Posts
    12,637
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11519
    Quote Originally Posted by Theatregirl1122 View Post
    Well, that's a bigger question than just this investigation, I think.
    Yes, it is. But it relates to this and every other problem in skating. The ISU accepts or denies allegations etc. If the ISU isn't trusted, then it doesn't matter as much whether the federations are trusted, because it all stops at the ISU. Whether the federations are telling the truth or not is left to the ISU to decide.

  18. #518
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6,262
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The plot thickens.

    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    So, this was originally posted in the Entries thread in the 4CC Forum, but IMO, it warrants its own thread and further discussion.

    This was posted in the 4CC Entries thread: Chinese Athlete Ages (document from the Chinese Olympic Committee website)

    The following birth dates do not match up with what is posted on the athletes ISU Bios.

    Wenjing Sui:
    ISU Birthdate: 18.07.1995 (15)
    Listed Birthdate: 07.05.1997 (13)

    Cong Han
    ISU Birthdate: 06.08.1992 (18)
    Listed Birthdate: 3.1989 (21)

    Bingwa Geng
    ISU Birthdate: 03.01.1994 (17)
    Listed Birthdate: 03.03.1995 (15)

    Yu Gao
    ISU Birthdate: 10.07.1992 (18)
    Listed Birthdate: 10.07.1988 (22)

    HisWeirness found this at a Chinese Skating forum (all links/info reposted with her permission):



    Geng's Japanese Wikipedia article also lists her birth year as 1995.

    She also found the following links at that same website:

    http://images.sport.org.cn/File/2007...1531155992.xls
    images.sport.org.cn/File/2009/09/22/1505096846.doc
    images.sport.org.cn/File/2007/07/30/1828025124.xls

    Now, those links have even more info:

    Dan Zhang:
    ISU Birthdate: 04.10.1985 (25)
    Listed Birthdate: 04.10.1987 (23)

    Hao Zhang:
    ISU Birthdate: 06.07.1984 (26)
    Listed Birthdate: 06.02.1982 (29)

    Xiaoyu Yu
    ISU Birthdate: 02.01.1996 (14)
    Listed Birthdate: 02.01.1998 (12)

    Yang Jin
    ISU Birthdate: 16.05.1994 (16)
    Listed Birthdate: 16.05.1989 (21)

    Binshu Xu
    ISU Birthdate: 28.07.1988 (22)
    Listed Birthdate: 29.07.1990 (20)

    So, if these birthdates are correct:
    - Sui was too young to compete as a junior last year and too young to be on the SGP this year
    - Han was not age eligible to compete in the JGP this year
    - Gao was not age eligible to compete in the JGP this year
    - Geng was too young for 2008 Junior Worlds
    - Dan Zhang was too young to compete in the JGP and Junior Worlds in 1999/2000 and too young to compete at the Olympics, Worlds and 4CC in 2002.
    - Binshu Xu was too young to compete as a junior in the 2002/2003 season
    - Xiaoyu Yu was too young for 2010 Junior Worlds (illegal entry) and is too young to compete internationally as a junior in the 2010/2011 season.

    So yeah. Feel free to post any other info you might have or find. Or point out any mistakes I made.

    Not suprising, but disappointing and I'm pissed.

    ETA: Added info found by jlai on Yu/Jin

    ETA: Added Sylvia's info on BinShu Xu

  19. #519
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    232
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    The fact that the ISU is not trusted is not good for skating. What's the solution to that?
    No solution to that. Everyone knows what happened when some prominent figure skating officials tried to set up a rival skating federation in 2003. Down with Sally-Anne Stapleford, Ronald Pfenning, Britta Lindgren! Plus, dear Speedy is going to be President of the ISU until he dies.

  20. #520

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,352
    vCash
    532
    Rep Power
    8773
    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    I suspect a decent team of genealogists from Taiwan could get the job done. There are more corroborating sources of evidence than people often imagine, and I'd be surprised if good researchers couldn't find it. I don't think that the ISU is able to investigate the way out of a paper bag, so no, I wouldn't particularly think they'd be good at it.
    Well, it doesn't even have to be team from Taiwan. Let's say, team of genealogists from several countries (perhaps 5 countries), and if possible choose the countries whose skaters have something to loose by Chineese cheating. (for example, if Wenjing Sui were not old enough to be at GPF in December 2010, Iliushechkina/Maisuradze were robbed of their bronze medal at GPF). I think the strongest discipline (and the one where the cheating would benefit most) is pairs, so why not choose the genealogists from Germany, Russia, USA, Canada, because they have got the strongest pairs and they have got something to loose if Chineese skaters are cheating.

Page 26 of 30 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •