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  1. #61
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    Skaters are inconsistent because ice is more slippery than it used to be

    I don't really get why Ando is on the list She had some bad competitions in the past but in total I've always thought her to be very consistent skater (especially this season)

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeschke View Post
    Ando at the list?

    Since her debut at worlds 04 she qualified for every main international competetion (worlds, olympics) until now. in a country like japan, this is an effort itself.
    at worlds her lowest placement wa rank 6 in 2005, other places 4, 1, 3, 4.
    she had a tough year 2008, as she has to withdrew at worlds, but inconsistence is something further than that
    ITA. Even in her Junior years, she placed 3, 2 and 1.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    I'll have you know that of the 80-100 programs downloaded onto my computer, maybe 3 or 4 are IJS programs.
    How do you choose which programs to download?

    If you have favorite skaters who competed and medaled before IJS and few favorites from the most recent years, that might skew your choice of programs to save.

    It might be instructive to watch a whole competition from a recent year and a whole competition from 10-15-20 years ago and see which year has more programs that interest you, including not only the medalists but also the skaters who place in the bottom and middle of the field.

    Are you comparing emotion? Often which skaters move us emotionally is very subjective, so you have your favorites and I might have different ones. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't use your own preferences to generalize about the level of emotion in each era.

    When our favorites retire, it might take a while to find other skaters we connect to equally strongly.

    Going back to the original poster's question about consistency, again, we need to look at the whole field to generalize, or else come up with a clear definition of "top skaters" if we want to limit it.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    So obviously, in your point of view, because I happen to have named Plushenko and Yagudin on my favourites list, I know nothing about skating or think it's only about the jumps.

    I know it's not about the jumps. Yes, the programs are still bland. And boring. Because there's NOT enough expressiveness and what expressiveness there is is completely fake. Case in point, Lysacek's Olympic LP. Cold fish central. That was the blandest, most boring program I have ever seen.

    The bigger part of my point is, the programs ALL LOOK THE SAME. There's no individuality anymore.
    We're all entitled to our opinions, and I mostly agree with yours. It doesn't seem like skaters today have their own unique style and distinct character traits. I miss the old days with the arrogant Plushenko, the Karate-Man Elvis Stjoko, the athletic amazon Surya Bonaly, the fiery Maria Butyrskaya, the sublimely elegant Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, etc...I didn't like everything they came up with but at least you got a sense of their personalities when they skated.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock2 View Post
    I Count the record number of crosscuts and absence of transitions in a program like Petrenko's. Under 6.0 you can rest and regroup. A very good CoP program doesn't have a moment of peace
    A m o d i o
    If you are Takahashi, Kozu or Chan a full program with no rest looks amazing and flies by, I mind the points whoring for programs that look like ages to finish and you see the ticks in the boxes for the footwork, high kicking and crowling to the end. I for once like they give GOE to the choreography sequence now, you can tell they skate it more free. But instead of the second category (no chan, no dai or kozu) I prefer the Amodio category, Brentsson and so many more, with resting points but their own personality in the program.
    A very nice COP program which has rest s but serves the choreo and the audience to get into the program is Saywer´s Lp.
    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    I get really irritated when people have a go at Plushenko for being "emotionless" in Torino. Hello, it was The Godfather! His character was a mafia boss. Mafia bosses are supposed to be emotionless!
    Everyone´s interprets the program as they like, but in this case Plush has said himself he just skated thinking he had to stay on his feet so finally win the gold, and he said himself he was emotionless and dry until the final pose. Didnt say anything about mafia.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    So obviously, in your point of view, because I happen to have named Plushenko and Yagudin on my favourites list, I know nothing about skating or think it's only about the jumps.

    I know it's not about the jumps. Yes, the programs are still bland. And boring. Because there's NOT enough expressiveness and what expressiveness there is is completely fake. Case in point, Lysacek's Olympic LP. Cold fish central. That was the blandest, most boring program I have ever seen.

    The bigger part of my point is, the programs ALL LOOK THE SAME. There's no individuality anymore.
    Well don't watch skating any more if you don't like what you see. That is not our problem.

    But I agree with Professordeb that bland is in the eye of the beholder. But there are plenty of people who do like what they see and can appreciate what the skaters are doing. However keep arguing the line you are is just whipping a dead horse.

    What about Joannie Rochette's performance at the olympics? You couldn't see the emotion in that nor get the story of what was behind it? If anyone didn't get that performance they are just a cold fish.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  7. #67

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    Sorry - double post
    Last edited by Aussie Willy; 02-08-2011 at 01:18 AM.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    What about Joannie Rochette's performance at the olympics? You couldn't see the emotion in that nor get the story of what was behind it? If anyone didn't get that performance they are just a cold fish.
    The most impactful/memorable performance of 2010, IMHO.

    .

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    So obviously, in your point of view, because I happen to have named Plushenko and Yagudin on my favourites list, I know nothing about skating or think it's only about the jumps.

    I know it's not about the jumps. Yes, the programs are still bland. And boring. Because there's NOT enough expressiveness and what expressiveness there is is completely fake. Case in point, Lysacek's Olympic LP. Cold fish central. That was the blandest, most boring program I have ever seen.

    The bigger part of my point is, the programs ALL LOOK THE SAME. There's no individuality anymore.
    NO I did NOT say you knew nothing about skating. Please READ WHAT I POSTED!!! However, it does seem to me that you are implying that because Plushy and Yagudin are Russian, that I couldn't possibly like either one of them because they are jumpers. Well hate to burst your bubble, but I tend to put Plushy in the jumper category and Yagudin in the complete skater category. It has nothing to do with their nationality, only how I perceive their skating. You find Lysacek bland - well that's how I find Plushy.

    Before you go and assume things about people and their posts, maybe you should get to know a bit more about them.

    As for your last paragraph, sorry, going to have to disagree with you on that too. Maybe you should check out the skating performances of those you think are bland or some of the youngsters now vying for the top 10 and podium. I see lots of individuality but then again, maybe it's because I'm expecting to see different things from individuals while you are content with your list of four.
    Crazy about sports!

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by geod2 View Post
    The most impactful/memorable performance of 2010, IMHO.

    .
    I agree.
    Its too bad that only someone experiences a personal tragedy can be seen as having emotion. I see a lot of emotion and hard work in others' skating too.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    I agree.
    I see a lot of emotion and hard work in others' skating too.
    That's so true. There are plenty of examples.

    OT but, I look at the record of one of my absolute favorites, Alena Leonova, and she's probably not that consistent...I really don't know, or care.
    Yeah, she needs more polish technically (especially travelling across the ice during spins), but Alena shares her heart and soul in a most genuine way nearly every time.
    A nice balance of skills and musicality/expression that I can sure live with...gives me joy nearly each time I watch her.
    No cookie-cutter blandness going on here...not to me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMFZBZW96BI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZw-XD8I1J4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQK9c...eature=related


    ...and so many others skaters, too.

    /
    Last edited by geod2; 02-08-2011 at 04:16 AM.

  12. #72

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    I agree about Alena. For all the criticism she receives, I would never doubt her commitment to the performance and the personality she injects into them. Love her feisty character.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  13. #73

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    Oh phooey, they were always inconsistent; they simply weren't marked as such and went into the history books as being consistent. Skaters appear to be more inconsistent now because of the COP judging system, which "bares all" -- you get points for what you do on the ice, at that moment -- and doesn't as easily allow past champions and old favorites to be propped up by judges, although some would argue that a bit of that lingers on in the PCS (2nd marks).

    It's doubtful that we'll ever see a multi-year string of wins, as in the old days. (A US champ one year can be in 11th place the next year.) That, of course, is bad for marketing, as ice shows have traditionally depended on the sticking power of champions to 'create' big-name skaters.

    We asked for it (a more fair judging system) - we got it! Now we must take the good and bad of this change, the "bad" being the decreased likelihood of 'creating' a consistent, multi-year champion.

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