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Thread: Mirai vs. Frank

  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    It turns out that Mirai isn't quite as innocent as she seems. After the tongue-lashing by Frank on Saturday night, Mirai decided to get the ultimate revenge! Yes, it's true--she unfriended him on Facebook!

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    This thread has really taken off. In fact, I heard that more skating fans have read this thread than watched the ladies' event at U.S. Nationals.

    Apparently this story has taken a surprise twist. It turns out that Mirai isn't quite as innocent as she seems. After the tongue-lashing by Frank on Saturday night, Mirai decided to get the ultimate revenge! Yes, it's true--she unfriended him on Facebook!
    OMG! What a bitch! How could she?

    Seriously, I've read and seen multiple interviews with Mirai, and she has never said anything negative about Carroll. Tempest in a tea cup as far as I'm concerned.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    This thread has really taken off. In fact, I heard that more skating fans have read this thread than watched the ladies' event at U.S. Nationals.

    Apparently this story has taken a surprise twist. It turns out that Mirai isn't quite as innocent as she seems. After the tongue-lashing by Frank on Saturday night, Mirai decided to get the ultimate revenge! Yes, it's true--she unfriended him on Facebook!
    Haha! I didn't even know Mirai had a facebook account. That'll teach him.

    But seriously, so what if Frank didn't sugarcoat any of his words in the K&C or that he dished out that he felt Mirai didn't get her act together until the last three weeks? Mirai, herself, is quoted in the L.A. Times saying, "I was a little nervous that I hadn't worked as hard as I could have."

    On the flip side, he probably wouldn't have gotten as pissed off as he did, if he didn't believe in Mirai's potential. I don't really remember him or Congemi being as terse towards Bebe whenever she messed up.

  4. #144
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    about Facebook.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubletoe View Post
    YES. Charlene Wong is on record as saying the exact same things about Mirai that Frank is now saying (challenging, stubborn, lazy, etc.), and she also said that in the year after her national championship, she hardly ever did long program run-throughs. I also know one of her former coaches who coached her for 9 years, who told me that not only is she very headstrong, but she was such a gifted skater that she never had to work very hard. This longtime coach also said Mirai's mother has been a problem, making decisions that go against her coaches' requests and also encouraging bad habits. Her mother used to reward her for cheating her jump landings on the toepick and would scold her for falling or otherwise not completing a jump, and this is probably why she still reverts to cheating jump landings on the toe when she is nervous (i.e., the long program).
    Thanks for the helpful info, Doubletoe.

    Is it any wonder she ended up switching to a coach who had a very firm hand? I'm not Frank's #1 fan, but I certainly don't think he should be blamed for being a disciplinarian.
    Being a disciplinarian in itself is good. But it seems that Frank is sometimes more than that. Actually, I blame Frank for letting this situation go on as long as it has. If Mirai didn't get her act together until three weeks before Nationals, then who's really to blame--Frank or Mirai? Is the solution simply to act grumpily in the K&C? Maybe Frank needs to take a closer look at himself and say, "Why I am I tolerating this?" Rather than behaving in a hot-tempered fashion both on TV and in remarks to the press, Frank should take Mirai and her parents aside in private and say, "Look, this is not working. This is what I have been expecting, and this is what we've been getting. I want X, Y, and Z to change. If that is not possible, then let's part ways on good terms. We don't need to be wasting each other's time." That approach, rather than blowing up, is the mature and effective way to handle this problem.

  6. #146
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    Facebook , LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    I think what bothered me about this is that he did it in front of us. If he speaks to her that way in private and she and her parents are ok with it, whatever; but to kind of humiliate her in front of millions was unusual in ANY coach, let alone someone as repected as FC.

    P.S. ant, see? If he'd kept this private, arm-chair psychologists wouldn't be posting. It was like airing dirty laundry or something.

    -Bridget

    He said "you gave it away". In what universe is that mean or humiliating or anything else for that matter? I just don't get it, i really don't see a single thing wrong with that statement. Was it true? Yes. Was it said in a mean way? No.

    Ant

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrouFrou View Post
    Haha! I didn't even know Mirai had a facebook account. That'll teach him.
    And you just won't believe what Frank wrote on her wall.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Because gentleness is more likely to achieve positive results.



    And his student is a human being.

    A football coach doesn't usually coach teenage girls. If he did, he might have to make some adjustments in the way he does things. Barking out orders, calling all his players "knuckleheads," pouring Coke over their heads, and making offending players run laps if they did something mistaken probably wouldn't be the best way to optimize results. I'm just saying that a one-size-fits-all approach isn't always the best.

    The summer before I entered the fifth grade, I was taking some swimming lessons at a local YMCA. I used to bring this quart-sized container that had Kool-Aid in it with me. Anyway, one day my instructor was getting kind of nosy and picked it up. My response was essentially, "Leave that alone." I guess he didn't like that, so he promptly opened up the container and poured the Kool-Aid all over my head. It was kind of shocking. Looking back, I would consider that abuse. But can you imagine if he had done that to a young girl? He probably would've gotten fired.



    It has nothing to do with figure skaters per se. Anyway, there's a difference between being harsh and being firm but kind. The latter is fine.



    That is a valid point. It's not like having a parent--if Mirai wants to leave, she can (theoretically).
    Your initial remark was sexist or that is the impression I got, and your breaking down my remarks doesn't change that. You seemed to suggest that Frank or any coach should treat a female athlete with kid gloves versus a male athlete.

    As for Mirai, I believe her former coach Charlene Wong has alluded to Mirai's training habits, and I believe Frank himself said in an interview that it was only 3 weeks ago that Mirai finally started getting her act together which is no where near enough time. I still believe Mirai should have been on that World team, but far better trained than she seemed at Nationals. Her jumps in the LP looked scratchy as she landed them-she seemed to save them time and again, and her spins-there is something wrong with her spins and she needs to address that quickly because spins are her bread and butter. I don't blame Frank for being spontaneous as he showed his frustration with Mirai. I think tough love is exactly what Mirai needs at this point if she ever wants to go to the next level and make it on to a Worlds podium. Or better yet, win a Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Kind and gentle doesn't always work. I teach performing arts - a field notorious for tough love from teachers and coaches - and while I always try and give constructive and fair feedback, sometimes the message doesn't get through and you just have to tell it as it is. Frank told Mirai she gave it away, that's all. It's not as if he was effing and blinding at her and made her cry in the K&C. He just told the truth and she knew it

    I think we've all seen enough of Frank Carroll over the years to know that while he demands certain things of his skaters and is a firm disciplinarian, he also has a great understanding of the human psyche and has found a knack of handling different students in different ways. That's the sign of a great teacher. I mean this IS the man who managed to coach Christopher Bowman for all those years, lest we forget But one thing Frank won't stand for is laziness and goofing around. It's all about hard work, no matter how talented you are and if she's not working hard enough he isn't going to be happy. Mirai knew what she was getting when she signed up with Frank. If she doesn't like it as you say, she's free to leave but as others have said - wherever she goes, the same issues will follow.

    Regarding the OP; the very idea that just because not all his students have won Worlds or an OGM we should suddenly question his coaching abilities is not just laughable, it's downright absurd. Every great coach has kids that won't even make it to sectionals!!
    Absurd indeed. The way I read neptune's commentary about Frank it seemed he was made out to be this awful coach ala Bela Karolyi to his FEMALE skaters.
    Last edited by Sasha'sSpins; 02-01-2011 at 12:39 PM.

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseySlore View Post
    From what I heard Orser had more or less laissez faire attitude with regard to Kim.

    But seriously, everyone responds to any given coaching method differently. Depending on personality and upbringing, some skaters might respond well to negative reinforcement and some might not. It's simple as that.
    It also depends on what the student expects the coach to do. Since Mirai hired Frank precisely because she wanted a "tough love" coach, I don't see why he should be criticized for being tough.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    It also depends on what the student expects the coach to do. Since Mirai hired Frank precisely because she wanted a "tough love" coach, I don't see why he should be criticized for being tough.
    exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    He said "you gave it away". In what universe is that mean or humiliating or anything else for that matter? I just don't get it, i really don't see a single thing wrong with that statement. Was it true? Yes. Was it said in a mean way? No.

    Ant
    i think the fuss is about what he said in Hersh about her, not how strict he can be with her as a coach.

  13. #153
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    If Frank wants to get tough with Mirai, well that's fine. But is it really the high-class thing to do getting tough on national television? Couldn't he wait 5 minutes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    If Frank wants to get tough with Mirai, well that's fine. But is it really the high-class thing to do getting tough on national television? Couldn't he wait 5 minutes?
    But that's the point. If other tactics don't work to get Mirai focused and disciplined, public embarrassment may be all he's got left at his disposal (short of dumping her, which I'm sure he doesn't want to do in light of her talent). As I mentioned before, Charlene Wong also said some unflattering things about Mirai to the press and that is VERY unlike her, so it does beg the question of whether that's what it takes to keep Mirai on the straight and narrow.

    By the way, I think it's a fairly common tactic for coaches with fearful skaters to try make their own wrath a bigger fear than the fear of competition. It's the same reason the military has drill sergeants, and I can see how it could work for both Mirai and Adam (although in Adam's case, I would think it would just serve to make him mad at himself for disappointing Brian).
    Last edited by Doubletoe; 02-01-2011 at 08:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks1227 View Post
    I want to buy that book!!

    Okay, now ya'll can get back to your arguing.

    I'll settle for a Moskvina book. I have no hope whatsoever that Carroll will write one. 'Course, if Moskvina wrote a book I'm not sure I'd believe a word she said. I suspect she's quite the little operator.

  16. #156
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    I saw her facebook but didn't see what Frank wrote- care to enlighten me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tapper88 View Post
    I saw her facebook but didn't see what Frank wrote- care to enlighten me?
    I think some folks are just messing with those who take this mean old FC poor MN so seriously.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post
    i think the fuss is about what he said in Hersh about her, not how strict he can be with her as a coach.
    I thought the first post and most of the ones that followed directly addressed Frank's relationship with and comments made directly to Mirai in the KnC.

    You and a couple of other people seem most offended by what was said to Hersh, but I wouldn't say that is what the fuss is about. I'd say that's kind of a sub-fuss.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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    Ahhh, the tricky sub-fuss. Sometimes here on FSU it is tough to keep all the fusses straight
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

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    Just watched the Japanese broadcast of Mirai's FS from fsvids and whaddya know? It's edited slightly differently and you get to hear what Mirai says as she comes off the ice.

    Mirai: I gave it away at certain points...

    They sit down.

    Frank: So yeah, you gave it away. I'm sorry.

    That puts rather a different light on the image cultivated here of Frank being some kind of monster coach doesn't it?



    ETA: Anyone wanting to see for themselves will have to download the video from fsvids. It won't be on youtube I don't think.

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