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Thread: Mirai vs. Frank

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by brina View Post
    rfisher, this may be true, but do you think given the opportunity, that your coach would have spoken on public grounds to the media about how lazy you and your team were?
    Yes. And did more than once. And to our parents. And my mother's response? Suck it up, princess. If you don't like how things go, quit the team.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

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    But did she really "give it away," or was she simply being human? It doesn't really matter IMO if it's the truth. If I tell someone that they're fat and ugly, and it's just the truth, is that OK? If Mirai's failing to nail the program was due to gross negligence on her part, then I can understand Frank's reaction. But if she honestly gave it her best but just came up short, I think such treatment in the K&C is harsh.
    But the point is Frank who works with Mirai every didn't think Mirai gave it her best shot. And as for the reason of being harsh. Well perhaps its so that Mirai could improve. Its not like Frank resorted to only swear words, etc and told her she was an awful human being unworthy of living. Frank told her she blew it, and then told her she should have attacked. He told her what she did wrong, and told her in a blunt way so that perhaps next time she'd approach it differently. Its called constructive criticism. Sometimes knowing what you did wrong can actually help you improve. Nobody gets better if all people tell them is positive things. (I also don't think people get better if all you do is yell at them and scream at them.) Sometimes darn it I need to know what I did wrong so I can work on improving it. And you know what when you make mistakes its actually perhaps better to analysis why said mistake happened immediately, and then forget about it. Than to sit around go over and over in your head the mistake, cry about the mistake, wallow in said mistake etc. One of the greatest competitive gymnasts Ludamilla Tourischeva once made a comment about how when you make a mistake, you need to analaysis the mistake so you don't develop a complex. And then you need to forget about it, so you don't make it again. Perhaps Frank was blunt with Mirai because he didn't want her spending another day or two days crying about how she always blew it after the short.

    As for why was Frank nicer to Michelle at 1997 Nationals. Well I would suggest to you that perhaps a big part of Frank's anger towards Mirai was the fact that Mirai didn't start training properly until 3 weeks before Nationals. If you have a skater who has been slacking of in practice, not doing what you told them too. Why would you feel the need to be all "poor baby after their poor skate."

    In contrast if you have a skater who normally delivers for you in competition, is dealing with intense pressure, and said skater works their butt off. Well when they have the rare bad skate you might be a bit more calm about it. Oh you might still discuss it later, but you might discussi t nicer.

    And I find it ridiculous to say that Frank shouldnt' call Mirai a slacker because Mirai's not a drug addict like Bowman. That's like saying a person isn't a thief because they only stole 100 dollars rather than a million dollars. Sure one may be worse than another, but seriously! Frank's not calling Mirai a horrible human being etc. He's saying she doesn't work the way she should in practice.

  3. #123
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    ITA. Of course Frank handled MK's 1997 Nationals LP differently. She was the reigning National and World champ and had been on a rampage winning everything she entered whilst dealing with boot issues, puberty and the spectre of expectation and having to defend titles. Plus she always worked hard. Frank had been there done all that with Linda in '78 when she lost the Nationals LP to Allen and World title to Poetszch. Who can forget his words in the K&C that day? 'You can't be perfect all the time'. MK was in absolute shock at what had just happened to her and he handled it perfectly.

    Now look at Mirai's competitive record, apparent work ethic and LP performance this past weekend and it's quite clear to see why Frank chose to handle the situation differently.

    ETA: Not that Mirai's skate was anything like MK's skate at '97 Nationals obviously but then, I didn't make the initial comparison .

  4. #124
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    He always dealt differently with Evan and not because he was male. Evan was not the most skilled skater out there, but he damn sure worked hard to be the best he could be. When Frank said he had undaunted courage, that's what he was referring to. Between Evan's work ethic and Frank's coaching skills, it paid off. It paid for MK time after time. It could pay off for Mirai if she decides she wants to put in the work required on her part. There's only so much a coach can do. The bottom line is always the athlete and what they want to accomplish. The coach just helps them get there.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  5. #125
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    I agree, I think that is what it comes down to. How bad Mirai wants to win and how competitive she is. I get the impression that she wants it, but it isn't a huge driving force for her personally, rather she wants to please those around her. She didn't really react dramatically until Frank said something, then she slumped and said "oh no" or something to that effect. It felt as though she was trying to show frank she was disappointed, because she didn't want to disappoint him. I get she wanted to do better, but was it for the right reasons? who knows.

    I hope her heart is in it. I don't want her to be another Ann Patrice

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ...... but she was somewhat cautious and afraid to attack in her free skate at nationals. He was mad at the fact that she didn't attack all her elements, even though he knew that she could.
    Mirai attacked her elements, but her elements defended themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubletoe View Post
    Sean Rabitt. But his is a different story. It's his first year as a Senior and when he slipped and fell on nothing, that was just the kind of fluke that could happen to anyone, especially someone who is really excited just to be competing at Nationals as a Senior for the first time.
    Sean Rabbitt also had a horrible case of flu; he was so sick that he had IVs every day.
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe.

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    ^ I disagree. She looked scared from the very beginning. A fire was missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Just watched Adam's SP and Brian chewing him out after - which no one seems to be making too much of a fuss about but I guess it's ok 'cos Adam's a man and he can take it whereas Mirai is America's next ice princess and should be treated accordingly It's sports, this is what happens.
    Actually I thought there was a rather dramatic overreaction to Orser's behavior in the Kiss and Cry in the Men's SP thread here and in the men's LP thread at skate America. People just didn't decide it need its very own thread.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    BTW, John Nicks is no slouch. Does anyone remember him voicing his opinion towards the press with Sasha Cohen and the quad at Skate America?
    To add to that, I recall an old fluff of Sasha that showed John Nicks yelling at her after she messed up a spin. She was nearly in tears and trying to apologize, and Nicks finally snapped at her and told her not to try to excuse herself. He didn't show any sympathy.

    It seems like many coaches are stern and unforgiving at times. I don't think it's a quality exclusive to Frank Carroll.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Mirai should look for a new coach. It's obvious that Frank is fed up with her. Otherwise, why would he release such negative comments to Hersh of all people.

    Orser would be a good choice for her IMO if she doesn't mind moving to Toronto. He has a lassei faire approach that might accomodate Mirai better. She could do well commercially as well if she performs in shows with Rippon who seem to be popular in Japan.
    Somehow I doubt that any successful figure skating coach has a laissez faire attitude. Casual and elite figure skating do not co-exist. We have no idea what the relationship is between these two. Let's assume Carroll knows Nagasu better than we do, knows coaching better than we do, and Mirai knows herself better than we do.

  12. #132
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    I dont think anyone said Caroll is a bad coach or he should not apply his methods for Mirai ś bad skate, or talk to her parents, they can have an AA fight even, all that in their rink, but I dont see the talking on Hersh, especially Hersh, like he did about her was necessary , how that might help in any direction? Whats the reason to expose your athelte to Hersh?
    Plus this Mirai problem with the long , has happened a lot of times by now, its repetition maybe requires a sport expert psychologist or someone else to deal with it, cause his yelling doesnt seem to work so far.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinA View Post
    Somehow I doubt that any successful figure skating coach has a laissez faire attitude. Casual and elite figure skating do not co-exist. We have no idea what the relationship is between these two. Let's assume Carroll knows Nagasu better than we do, knows coaching better than we do, and Mirai knows herself better than we do.
    From what I heard Orser had more or less laissez faire attitude with regard to Kim.

    But seriously, everyone responds to any given coaching method differently. Depending on personality and upbringing, some skaters might respond well to negative reinforcement and some might not. It's simple as that.

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    If Mirai is such a slacker and only got serious 3 weeks ago, why did Frank take time at practice to have her practice a triple axel? That doesn't make any sense to me. I know some will say to get the others worried of her capabilities, but to me it just doesn't sound right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loopey View Post
    If Frank Carroll was anybody but Frank Carroll, I would be expecting a tell-all book with many juicy details of his students. He could probably retire in massive luxury with just the chapters on Kwan alone if he wanted to. Now that would be when we need to talk about Frank's behavior. Do it Frank, Do it!
    I want to buy that book!!

    Okay, now ya'll can get back to your arguing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagerboy View Post
    If Mirai is such a slacker and only got serious 3 weeks ago, why did Frank take time at practice to have her practice a triple axel? That doesn't make any sense to me. I know some will say to get the others worried of her capabilities, but to me it just doesn't sound right.
    That sly old fox (don't get me wrong, I adore Frank) was trying to psych out Czisny.

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    This thread has really taken off. In fact, I heard that more skating fans have read this thread than watched the ladies' event at U.S. Nationals.

    Apparently this story has taken a surprise twist. It turns out that Mirai isn't quite as innocent as she seems. After the tongue-lashing by Frank on Saturday night, Mirai decided to get the ultimate revenge! Yes, it's true--she unfriended him on Facebook!

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinA View Post
    Somehow I doubt that any successful figure skating coach has a laissez faire attitude. Casual and elite figure skating do not co-exist. We have no idea what the relationship is between these two. Let's assume Carroll knows Nagasu better than we do, knows coaching better than we do, and Mirai knows herself better than we do.
    IMO, each people have their own pace that works the best for them. Also, it seems that Mirai, despite all her talents and qualities, will never be dubbed a 'hard worker'.

    If such is the case, it might be better to accomodate her personality rather than forcing someone else's on her. She went to Frank to have her butt kicked by a no non-sense coach. It seemed to work for a while but not anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseySlore View Post
    From what I heard Orser had more or less laissez faire attitude with regard to Kim. .
    Yes but didn't Yu-na have a tendency to want to overtrain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Yes but didn't Yu-na have a tendency to want to overtrain?
    I think with all the pressure Yuna was under, and where her mom was the queen of all skating mom's, Orser couldn't really afford to be mean/harsh towards Yuna. It just wasn't his place. It seemed like with Yuna, his main concern was that she take care of her body, stay healthy and relaxed, and learn to eliminate all angst. Her situation was extremely different from Adam Rippon's so I'm not surprised he's much tougher on Adam.

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