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Thread: Mirai vs. Frank

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    I wasn't necessarily referring to that era, but I've heard teachers who've been at their job for decades lamenting the decline in the discipline and work ethic of their students. These folks would know.
    I've been teaching for 19 years. Does that count for anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Furthermore, the rise of narcissism in our society has been the subject of various studies:
    Indeed, and lots of pop culture books. But there are studies that also negate all that and say that kids today produce almost exactly the same results on psychology assessments as kids in the 1970s.

    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    I was referring to the "fact" that society in the "good ole days" (pre-'40s) encouraged kids to become responsible adults. Also, the "fact" that businesses began marketing to "teens" in the '40s like they never had before. I believe those are, indeed, "pretty clearcut and easy to define".
    Because you say so?

    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    Funny you mentioned the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew because I was thinking of them.
    Actually, I mentioned Andy Hardy, not the Hardy boys. And other media teens as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    That's why "sheltered" kids, i.e. those who are not as influenced by the marketing and the media (like home-schoolers, athletes, music/art prodigies, etc), are usually more mature than their peers who are.
    Again, because you say so?

    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    The way society markets and celebrates the teen years today encourages people to remain there forever and since teens are usually self-centered (not entirely their fault as their frontal lobes haven't finished developing yet, so they need a lot of encouraging from adults to be more mature) it's not such a good thing.
    Ah, well, I just read an interview with a neurobiologist who says that people should stop treating this as some sort of fact, as we don't understand enough about the brain to know if that is actually important behaviorally or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    Your "faq.org" link was broken, but I was wondering if the kinds of crimes kids committed in those decades were as serious as the kinds of crimes we see them commit today? Also, was the crime rate in general higher than today? And was crime in general more serious than today?
    Add an 'l' to the htm. But what I cited were not crime statistics; I was citing what I quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    PS None of what we're arguing here negates my original post to Doubletoe: "sheltered" kids are not less mature than their "unsheltered peers"; they are generally more mature because they hang out with more adults and are more goal-oriented as in the case of skaters (and because of their full days practising are not as influenced by harmful media/society whether that began 70 years ago or not). If "sheltered" kids are ever "awkward" around their "unsheltered peers" it would be in the same way that an adult is around teeny-boppers, lol.
    Well, again--because you say so?
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I don't think most of us know Mirai to know what Mirai is capable of doing or not doing in her private life. Please let me clarify and say that I've never met Mirai, nor have I heard any rumors that she's involved in such things. I'm just trying to point out that we can't assume elite athlete= not a partier.
    I'm pretty sure Frank would not agree to continue to coach Mirai if she was coming to practice hungover or knew she was damaging her body with smoking and drugs. I highly doubt she's a partier, and if she is, she must be VERY sneaky about it because it wouldn't be that hard to find out if she was doing drugs, drinking, smoking, etc on a regular basis and if she was Frank would have surely given her the boot by now.

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    All this because Mirai didn't do a 3T at Nationals.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    All this because Mirai didn't do a 3T at Nationals.
    Yes, and Franks' "abysmal" treatment of her because of that and a spin mistake..

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    I taught for 16 years ending last May.

    The teenagers didn't change. They had the relatively same work ethic (or lack of sometimes) and attitudes the entire time.

    Their parents' attitudes about it all is what I saw change over time. In my earliest years of teaching, I never had a parent come to explain to me, when confronted with concrete proof that their kid plagiarized for one example, that the kid didn't do it or should be allowed to. In the last few years, every kid that was caught had a parent who came in to defend them no matter how much proof we showed them. One WHITE BOY turned in a paper that included the line "as a Native American woman..." in the middle of it. I found the original essay online and provided his mother with his essay and a copy of the source. She insisted that it was all an amazing coincidence. One set of parents explained for over an hour that their kid should not only be allowed, but encouraged, to get his speeches, verbatim, from Wikipedia....

    I have enough examples to fill up ten threads.

    It wasn't the kids who changed.

  6. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    PS None of what we're arguing here negates my original post to Doubletoe: "sheltered" kids are not less mature than their "unsheltered peers"; they are generally more mature because they hang out with more adults and are more goal-oriented as in the case of skaters (and because of their full days practising are not as influenced by harmful media/society whether that began 70 years ago or not). If "sheltered" kids are ever "awkward" around their "unsheltered peers" it would be in the same way that an adult is around teeny-boppers, lol.
    Many people are disagreeing with the statement in bold and you don't seem to have produced any actual concrete facts to back up your statement.

    So far you have passed many opinions and told us they are facts.

    Perhaps you should end your sentences with TRUFAX. That might give them more credence ;-)

    Ant

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakimm View Post
    Great examples: all people who ended up flaming out under the tutelage of those coaches.
    Seriously?? While many weren't too happy about Mao working with TAT, she did win a GPF, 4CC, World title and Olympic silver medal as well as at least 2 National titles during their time working together. Hardly a shabby medal haul in 18 months.

    Robin Cousins won the OGM, was the worlds greatest free skater of his era - what an under achiever he was thanks to Fassi.

    Ito - the greatest female technician in skating history, total living legend as well as world champ and olys silver medallist. Yep total failure.

    Chris Bowman - what Kwanette said. Also Chris's greatest skating success came under Frank Carroll.

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    One WHITE BOY turned in a paper that included the line "as a Native American woman..." in the middle of it.
    Classic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    All this because Mirai didn't do a 3T at Nationals.
    I know! I love it!
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    All this because Mirai didn't do a 3T at Nationals.
    Even if she had done a 3t, all things else kept equal, Rachael still would have beaten her overall and gone to Worlds instead of Mirai. Rachael beat Mirai by 6 points and the difference in value between a 2t and a 3t is only 2+ points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    All this because Mirai didn't do a 3T at Nationals.
    Oh? I thought it was "all of this" because Frank dared to speak to her like she was a human being on earth, and not an angel sent down from heaven.

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    "All of this" because too many of us losers are while waiting for 4CC and Worlds, when we'll have REAL skating news to talk about!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Even if she had done a 3t, all things else kept equal, Rachael still would have beaten her overall and gone to Worlds instead of Mirai. Rachael beat Mirai by 6 points and the difference in value between a 2t and a 3t is only 2+ points.
    add in the missed spin and you're almost to 6 right there.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    add in the missed spin and you're almost to 6 right there.
    Which is why I'm still mad because it wasn't like Rachael was perfect either. After they had both skated, I thought it would essentially be a tie, I preferred Mirai but was guessing Rachael was gonna beat her by like a point. Her 6 point margin of victory over Mirai was just bogus. I mean, she won her trip to worlds I'm not denying that, but it should have been much closer. Mirai was closer to the scores of Agnes, Ashley, and Christina in the FS than she was to Rachael and Ashley, Agnes, and Christina all had more major errors than Mirai did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    No one could have handled Chris Bowman, rest his soul. Frank did everything a coach could do and more, rehab, etc..Frank had to let him go..or in Frank's own paraphrased words, it would have killed him..(Frank)
    It still hurts to think of Christopher. So mostly I try not to. When I do, I prefer to remember him in his often awesome exhibition performances.

    Anyway, back to Mirai-I wonder how her training is going? One certainly can't tell by her tweets. I hope Frank is getting her back into top form.
    Congrats to my ♥Baroque Rock Princess Adelina♥Meryl&Charlie♥Tatiana&Maxim♥!Team ♥Mirai♥Adam♥Julia♥

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    Rachel was definitely overscored. I have no idea why the US judges would hold her up so blatantly. As others have said even if she deserved 2nd (maybe) no way did she deserve the margin she had over Nagasu. And the scores suggest she would have beaten Czisny had she skated cleanly which is completely laugahble. Imagine international judges putting a clean Flatt over a clean Czisny.

    Last year I defended the scoring at Nationals but in hindsight it was probably a mistake for the U.S as far as their chances at the Olympics. This year makes it clear Flatt is a pet of the U.S judges however, which is strange since usually the federation and National judges looks to push people who international judges like and the international judges dont even like Flatt. Heck in 2008 she was also overscored, no way she deserved to finish above Wagner that year.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I've been teaching for 19 years. Does that count for anything?
    Most kids in my old high school are pretty darn rich.

    Their teachers are not even remotely comparable to them in the wealth department (when you have the kind of money that you need body guards, you hardly teach in highschool - not imposssible, but extremely unlikely).

    When I was in high school kids respected their teachers.
    Now they don't anymore, they actually often speak their mind: "who you think you are you poor little loser to dare grade my paper"?

    The school keeper (he lives inside the school and is supposed to overview the entrance during opening hours, as well as keep an eye on the building at evening and night) makes even less than teachers.
    He was mostly ignored when I went there.
    Now his apartment have been set on fire already twice in the last five years. Word is it's pretty funny to watch him run, call fire men, cry, go back, dig in his belongings, see what can be saved. The poor man doesn't have another place to live in.



    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I taught for 16 years ending last May.

    The teenagers didn't change. They had the relatively same work ethic (or lack of sometimes) and attitudes the entire time.

    Their parents' attitudes about it all is what I saw change over time.

    In the last few years, every kid that was caught had a parent who came in to defend them no matter how much proof we showed them.
    That's happening in my old highschool too.

    Parents that used to agree with teachers (at least when speaking to their face, even if five seconds later they hopped on a plane to the other end of the globe, and didn't give a damn about their kids grades or behaviour).
    Now they constantly threat with lawsuites. Suspension? Lawsuite. Expelled? Lawsuite. And you'd better not even dream to fail my kid in your class, cause my lawyers are sharks and will be all over you, and you just can't afford the fight.

    There are some other highschools in the less lucky districts, where parents can't afford lawyers (nor form sentences to conversate with them, I have to say), where teachears are just beaten up for a low grade.

    Same problem, same reaction, the solution is a little different, but it's a technicality.


    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    It wasn't the kids who changed.
    I have to say: I find it hard to believe that such a change in the parenting figures, wouldn't produce an equally significant change in the kids.

    I mean, years ago they knew they were on the line for consequences.
    Now they know there are troups behind them, no matter what they do.

  18. #318

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    This article is three years old, but I think you might find it fascinating:

    http://www.phillymag.com/articles/bad_parents/page1

    And yes, that really did happen in Haddonfield, NJ, and the little jerks got away with it.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Rachel was definitely overscored. I have no idea why the US judges would hold her up so blatantly. As others have said even if she deserved 2nd (maybe) no way did she deserve the margin she had over Nagasu. And the scores suggest she would have beaten Czisny had she skated cleanly which is completely laugahble. Imagine international judges putting a clean Flatt over a clean Czisny.

    Last year I defended the scoring at Nationals but in hindsight it was probably a mistake for the U.S as far as their chances at the Olympics. This year makes it clear Flatt is a pet of the U.S judges however, which is strange since usually the federation and National judges looks to push people who international judges like and the international judges dont even like Flatt. Heck in 2008 she was also overscored, no way she deserved to finish above Wagner that year.
    I'm not sure where the meme comes from that Intl. judges don't like Flatt. She won both LPs this past season in both of her GP assignments (even if she was called on 2 ur's in the LP at SA this past Fall, she still beat Murakami in that portion, who was technically cleaner). She also made it to the GPF for the 1st time. Granted, she didn't do well, but it looks like she's recovered. Also consider that she ditched the SP that was holding her back for something much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I'm not sure where the meme comes from that Intl. judges don't like Flatt. She won both LPs this past season in both of her GP assignments (even if she was called on 2 ur's in the LP at SA this past Fall, she still beat Murakami in that portion, who was technically cleaner). She also made it to the GPF for the 1st time. Granted, she didn't do well, but it looks like she's recovered. Also consider that she ditched the SP that was holding her back for something much better.
    I think the idea that Flatt isn't liked by international judges comes from her PCS, which seem to have stagnated. Flatt won the LP based on her TES rather than PCS. At SA, she lost in PCS to Murakami. I don't think the margin was great but it was still rather telling that in her second senior international event, Murakami was able to get better PCS than Rachel.
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

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