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Thread: Mirai vs. Frank

  1. #261
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    Mirai at the Olympics last year said she was a junior, which would mean she is a senior this year and will likely graduate in the spring.

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    I guess she's older & more advanced in school than I thought. She acts so young I didn't realize. Personally I don't think she acts very mature but maybe that is her public personna.

    I doubt whether Yuka would take her as long as she has Alissa but since neither Mirai nor Yuka has indicated that is a possibility, there's no reason to speculate.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I guess she's older & more advanced in school than I thought. She acts so young I didn't realize. Personally I don't think she acts very mature but maybe that is her public personna.

    I doubt whether Yuka would take her as long as she has Alissa but since neither Mirai nor Yuka has indicated that is a possibility, there's no reason to speculate.
    ITA!

    Mirai comes off as very immature for her age.

    I don't see why people find "unfiltered" skaters so "refreshing". From Pasha to Maria B to Johnny W to Mirai, they all just come off as hot messes. Surely there's a middle ground between "Canned scripted answer #43" and "I'm just gonna blabber on about nonsense".

    And there's no reason to speculate about a move because she already has the best coach in the country and if she can't get her act together with Frank, she might as well just accept the Nicole Bobeck unfulfilled potential award and call it a day.

    Plus, maybe once Yuka either reforms "headcase" Jeremy or gets "new Alissa" thru one complete season, I'll be ready to pronounce her a winning coach.

  4. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    Maybe Cedric Diggory had it coming...
    Yeah, what with being good looking, dating Harry Potter's object of affection, and being really smart and all. And having his name fly out of that cauldron thingy.

    Give Mirai a break. Perhaps with time she'll learn the 'slow and steady wins the race,' but perhaps she won't. Everybody matures at different rates, and so far, in general, it seems like Frank is doing OK with her.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    ITA!

    Mirai comes off as very immature for her age.

    I don't see why people find "unfiltered" skaters so "refreshing". From Pasha to Maria B to Johnny W to Mirai, they all just come off as hot messes. Surely there's a middle ground between "Canned scripted answer #43" and "I'm just gonna blabber on about nonsense".
    As long as people continue to find her "refreshing" and "cute", she will continue to be "unfiltered." I think it's fairly common for high level teenage skaters to seem younger than they are, though. They tend to be pretty sheltered socially.

  6. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    Yeah, what with being good looking, dating Harry Potter's object of affection, and being really smart and all. And having his name fly out of that cauldron thingy.

    Give Mirai a break. Perhaps with time she'll learn the 'slow and steady wins the race,' but perhaps she won't. Everybody matures at different rates, and so far, in general, it seems like Frank is doing OK with her.
    That's what I'm sayin'...(on both points).

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    I'm in the UK and don't have IN either, but where there's a will....

    Ok so other coaches who've chewed out their skaters in public:

    Tarasova destroyed Mao at TEB in 2008 after the free skate. Someone translated it and she was rattling on about her mistakes then said disdainfully - 'you couldn't even do rittberger'. Luckily for Mao I don't think she understood a word.

    Carlo Fassi could be pretty vocal, especially to the press. He called Robin a chicken for doubling his SP combination at 1980 Europeans and when asked about it Robin agreed with him.

    Oh and who can forget our own very dear Frank again at 1990 Worlds after Bowman's improvised LP. ''What was that program? I've never seen that program before''. I mean that whole coach/skater relationship was so infamous they actually did fluff pieces on it at 1990 Worlds.

    Oh and then of course there's Machiko Yamada's treatment of Midori Ito at the 1984 Junior Worlds in Japan. Midori won the free and came 3rd overall but made a couple of errors in her LP. Yamada absolutely chewed her out in the press conference which was well documented in reports of the event and there are rumours that she actually slapped her in full view of press and such backstage. Obviously that's absolutely outrageous.

    These are just ones that spring to mind. Most times you can't hear what's said so we don't have a clue do we? You don't like it? Fair enough, but it's nothing new in this sport. At all. And it's certainly not just Frank Carroll.
    Great examples: all people who ended up flaming out under the tutelage of those coaches.

  8. #268
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    I think Mirai has a good shot at winning 4CC and if she does I think it will help things with Frank because it shows that she CAN do it and didn't mean to "give it away" at nationals.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubletoe View Post
    As long as people continue to find her "refreshing" and "cute", she will continue to be "unfiltered." I think it's fairly common for high level teenage skaters to seem younger than they are, though. They tend to be pretty sheltered socially.
    I've always seen the exact opposite. Michelle, Tara, Sarah, Sasha, Tanith, Evan, Jenny Kirk, etc, etc. These all leap to mind as being quite mature when they were "teenagers". I've felt it's because they have a lot of adults in their lives that make them more like adults than their irritating and immature peers. Same with gymnasts. They're also so much more goal-oriented than their usually lackidaisical peers; that makes them more mature, too.

    "Sheltered lives" usually leads to maturity at a younger age because the person is around more adults during the day than a school filled with their immature peers.

    -Bridget

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post

    "Sheltered lives" usually leads to maturity at a younger age because the person is around more adults during the day than a school filled with their immature peers.
    In some ways, yes. But if you think that a lot of these elite skaters are home or onlined schooled, it means they 1.) aren't going to a real highschool with other kids their age 2.) probably don't have friends their age who apart from other skaters with the same lifestyle and school situation 3.) don't get to socialize much because of their busy schedules, and 4.) when they do get time to socialize, it's probably with other skaters because those are the only people they probably have time to get to know because they spend most of their time at the rink.

    This would all make it very easy for a teenage girl to not know how to act normally in a party situation or even just an interview or conversational situation.

    If you think about it, most of these skaters only really communicate with their parents and siblings (if they have any, which Mirai does not), their coach who is much older than they are, and their friends and boyfriend/girlfriend if they have one who are more than likely to be other skaters who don't have social lives either. So yeah. I guess in some ways skaters are mature because Mirai's parents can trust her to not get pregnant or wind up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning from going to a rager like other teenagers, but at the same time, Mirai probably would seem really awkward and immature around the "normal" kids her age because she seems so much younger due to being sheltered.

    I will say that when I watched Ice Diaries when it was aired a few years ago, it really shocked me that Alissa Czisny was 18, because the way she acted, it really seemed more like she was 13 or 14 in terms of her maturity, being so close to her mom and talking about learning experiences and all that. She was in college but they even mentioned on the show that she barely got to see the few friends she had at college, didn't really have a social life, and the time she did have to spend with friends she spent with other skaters.

  11. #271

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    I'm not so sure I agree with that, Bridget. I think when you are not around others your own age you don't always pick up on social cues.

  12. #272

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    I've always seen the exact opposite. Michelle, Tara, Sarah, Sasha, Tanith, Evan, Jenny Kirk, etc, etc. These all leap to mind as being quite mature when they were "teenagers".
    Sasha? Really? Do you remember 2000? No, she wasn't refreshing, but....
    Last edited by Sparks; 02-09-2011 at 01:07 AM.

  13. #273
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    One can't pick up on social clues when one is mostly around adults? Huh? Being around adults encourages more adult behaviour. Being around kids encourages immature behaviour (not that all kids who are around kids are, some can be mature for their age, but they do stick out).

    As for a "sheltered" kid coming off as "awkward" around their peers, that would be a good thing; their peers are usually immature and foolish. The "sheltered" kid would seem the more mature than his/her peers who are becoming more and more immature these days. It isn't because I'm an old fogey, lol, I've never liked modern teenagers even when I was one. I was always considered "mature for my age" and my maturity increased when my parents began home-schooling me when I was eight.

    In the "old days" (pre-'40s when "teenagers" started to become celebrated by US society) kids aspired to be adults, not just act like adults by engaging in adult behaviour like sex and drinking like today, but truly responsible adults. Being mature nowadays helps them not to make the really foolish decisions so many of their peers make today.

    -Bridget

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    aren't going to a real highschool with other kids their age
    I always get a chuckle out of people who think that the only "real" school is in a class-room environment with one's peers. That's a very "sheltered" opinion.

    -Bridget

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakimm View Post
    Great examples: all people who ended up flaming out under the tutelage of those coaches.
    Why does "flaming out" mean?

  16. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Why does "flaming out" mean?
    Winning World and/or Olympic medals?

  17. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Why does "flaming out" mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    Winning World and/or Olympic medals?
    Lol. I should have 'flamed out' so well as a Cohen or Ito. And I don't think either has done too shabbily on the ice show circuit. They won World and Olympic medals-something most of us can only dream of.

    Christopher Bowman flamed out in a very bad way imo due to his tragic drug addictions. Most of the skaters mentioned thank God did not die young as Christopher did due to his choices in life.
    Congrats to my ♥Baroque Rock Princess Adelina♥Meryl&Charlie♥Tatiana&Maxim♥!Team ♥Mirai♥Adam♥Julia♥

  18. #278

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    So yeah. I guess in some ways skaters are mature because Mirai's parents can trust her to not get pregnant or wind up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning from going to a rager like other teenagers, but at the same time, Mirai probably would seem really awkward and immature around the "normal" kids her age because she seems so much younger due to being sheltered.
    I don't think most of us know Mirai to know what Mirai is capable of doing or not doing in her private life. Please let me clarify and say that I've never met Mirai, nor have I heard any rumors that she's involved in such things. I'm just trying to point out that we can't assume elite athlete= not a partier.

    As for Mirai and coaching, I'm curious why people think that this is a situation that someone like Yuka could fix. Sometimes it seems like everyone has this "new super coach situation" A year ago it was Orser, now I guess its Yuka and Jason. Don't get me wrong both are clearly doing amazing jobs as coaches, but I don't think we can assume yet that either are better coaches than Frank Carroll. Seeing as Frank has coached an Olympic champion, Olympic medalists, and multiple world medalists. I have a feeling that Yuka and Jason are still getting their feet wet so to speak.

    Now it is totally possible that Frank isn't the right coach for Mirai. But I also think we need to take into account Frank's words about Mirai's training habits, and also take into account the fact that Frank isn't the first of Mirai's coaches to complain about Mirai's training habits. Different coaches may have different training methods, and different things they want athletes to focus on. But I have a feeling that most successful coaches DON'T differ on the amount of work that it truly takes to get to the top.

    If its true that until three weeks before nationals, Mirai wasn't putting in the work that her coach felt was necessary, than Mirai's problems really aren't mental. Its hard to have confidence in your skating, going into something as daunting as a free skate, if you know full well that you haven't put in the work or training time.

    If Mirai's issues are work ethic issues, there isn't going to be a magic "coaching solution". The solution is going to have to be Mirai deciding that she has the drive to do the work necessary to get to the top of the sport. No coach is going to be able to give Mirai that drive, Mirai's going to have to get it herself.
    Last edited by bek; 02-09-2011 at 03:04 AM.

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    In the "old days" (pre-'40s when "teenagers" started to become celebrated by US society) kids aspired to be adults, not just act like adults by engaging in adult behaviour like sex and drinking like today, but truly responsible adults.
    I always get a chuckle out of people who think that people were better in the good old days. It's a very "sheltered" opinion.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Carlo Fassi could be pretty vocal, especially to the press. He called Robin a chicken for doubling his SP combination at 1980 Europeans and when asked about it Robin agreed with him.
    Carlo also wasn't very camera-friendly when he threw a hissy-fit after Jill doubled her combo at the 1990 worlds SP

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