Mirai vs. Frank

[neptune]

That analogy doesn't really work though because Mirai is not in an employment situation with Frank in that way, if anything it's the other way round Frank is employed by Mirai.

Oh, so Mirai's the boss then? Well, based on what we've seen about their situation, it's sure seeming that way. I sure hope that Frank is able to meet Mirai's stern expectations, because if not, he's in for some BIIIIIIGGG trouble.

Frank and Mirai are surely back to their usual routine and niether has terminated their contract.

Yet.

[bardtoob]

The relationship is more like Mirai is in private school being taught by Frank. Mirai is paying Frank so Frank can give Mirai work that will get her to her goal.

[neptune]

Apparently Hersh has another article out on this matter. I guess Mirai does know how to stand up for herself after all. Here's a little snippet from it:

After Mirai Nagasu failed to skate up to her potential in the long program at last week's U.S. Nationals, Frank Carroll caused quite a stir among skating fans by his comments about Nagasu seemingly mooning the crowd before her skate. Many felt that he had gone too far with his remarks. I had the chance to speak with Nagasu yesterday about her feelings on the controversy, and here is what she had to say: "Yes, I definitely gave it away in the long, but there's really no reason for Frank to wet his Depend undergarments over it. Of course, I don't take his comments personally, because he wouldn't know the difference between the sun and the moon anyway. He must be in orbit half the time, because during our practices, I have to keep saying, 'Earth to Frank. Earth to Frank.' I guess that's just what happens when he stops taking his Geritol!"

[Cheylana]

^^ Nicely done Neptune!

[kwanette]

Sure she can leave. She can decide if she wants a real shot at an OGM and train like she needs to or she can skate for fun at an expensive cost. The decision is hers to make.

If I had a kid who had the talent and desire to be a champion figure skater, I'd send them to Frank Carroll in a heartbeat.

My kid would beat your kid to Frank.

[PUNKPRINCESS]

So he's supposed to take control of the situation by speaking softly all the time? In all my years of teaching I have never met one student who this would work for. EVERYONE needs a kick up the arse every now and again whether they like it or not!!

Did you even bother to watch the video I quoted from? The video which quite clearly blows your hypotheses out of the water and where Frank appears to be doing his job perfectly well without a hint of churlishness?

(And I'm talking about the K&C here obviously, not the subfuss where we really don't know anything of the context in which things were said or not said to Phil Hersh.)

While I agree with the general gist of your post, I have to wonder whether you only teach kindergarten or elementary school. Not everyone needs a "kick up the arse" - different approaches work best for different people.

Anyway, this hoopla over Frank just makes me . A coach is supposed to look for ways to motivate and/or help their students get better. We can't definitively say that what he says or does is necessarily bad or wrong for Mirai. The truth is, some people DO need more toughness than others to get to work and be their best. It could be that Mirai is one of those people.

To reiterate what others have mentioned, Frank was entirely different with Denis Ten. "You'll live to skate another day." *pat pat*

Yeah, I feel for Mirai. I also wonder if she might do better and be happier with the coaching style of Yuka and Jason. But I can't see that Frank has done a great wrong.

[Morry Stillwell]

If you know, can you please tell us how Tonya's coaches (both Teachman and Rawlinson) viewed their pupil? Obviously, they must have gotten exasperated at times, but were they generally forgiving of her shortcomings, or were they just livid half the time?[/QUOTE]

At the Olympics Tonya and Rawlinson had parted ways. Dodi was with Tonya and had a full time job getting her to skate rather than talk to the press. I made her room with Calla Urbanski and they kept Tonya from being too much of a problem in the Village.

[floskate]

While I agree with the general gist of your post, I have to wonder whether you only teach kindergarten or elementary school. Not everyone needs a "kick up the arse" - different approaches work best for different people.

Couldn't be more wrong. I teach performing Arts in an FE college. All my students are 16+ and yes everyone DOES need a kick up the arse every now and again; even me! (This is a British idiom for a verbal exchange to get someone to work harder / behave / be more disciplined in their approach to learning, not literally kicking them!!) How that ''kick up the arse'' is delivered is another matter entirely and there are many ways of achieving the desired result. If you'd read my other posts in this thread you would know that I'm a huge believer that each student learns in different ways and the best teachers are those that find a way to get the best out of each indivdual student using various different methods and approaches.

Feel free to come and observe some of my classes if you still have any doubts.

[Yazmeen]

At the Olympics Tonya and Rawlinson had parted ways. Dodi was with Tonya and had a full time job getting her to skate rather than talk to the press. I made her room with Calla Urbanski and they kept Tonya from being too much of a problem in the Village.

The perfect roommate. Calla will NOT take crap from anyone! (Love Calla, I'm a VERY low level skater, and as I went to take the ice at Philly Areas 2007, she gave me a big smile and shouted "Good Luck" as I headed out. I swear I was so blown away having a national champion wish me good luck that I forgot to be nervous and had one of my better skates!)

[PUNKPRINCESS]

Couldn't be more wrong. I teach performing Arts in an FE college. All my students are 16+ and yes everyone DOES need a kick up the arse every now and again; even me! (This is a British idiom for a verbal exchange to get someone to work harder / behave / be more disciplined in their approach to learning, not literally kicking them!!) How that ''kick up the arse'' is delivered is another matter entirely and there are many ways of achieving the desired result. If you'd read my other posts in this thread you would know that I'm a huge believer that each student learns in different ways and the best teachers are those that find a way to get the best out of each indivdual student using various different methods and approaches.

Feel free to come and observe some of my classes if you still have any doubts.

Oh, all your posts in this thread were completely reasonable to me. I totally agree with the parts I bolded. I was just questioning the idea that everyone needs a strong push now and then. I'm also curious about some of the ways you or your colleagues deliver the "kick in the arse"--primarily because I am actually one of those individuals who was extremely self-motivated, and if anyone tried to tell me how and when and what to do, I not only resisted, but did the entirely opposite thing. My parents were NEVER like that to me, but one of my aunts and one of my daycare workers was, and those are the only times I ever truly "misbehaved". I turned out pretty well in spite of having "play dates", doing soccer and baseball, watching TV shows, indulging in video games, having my beloved guitar (and violin ) and whatnot. Then again, I gave myself my own mental arse-kicking if I was displeased with myself.

Does it count if the early arse-kicking came from possibly some instances in my life where peers and/or teachers would suggest I was not so bright? Somewhere along the way I had an Elle Woods moment and relished in proving that people's low expectations of me were wrong.

Looking into the future when I may have children, I am at a loss as to what I might or should do if my children weren't maturing properly. e.g. if they disobeyed me and were doing drugs (my worst fear.) I am living proof that soft-spoken "live and let live" support goes far, but I also know discipline may be needed in others and I wouldn't know how to deliver it without feeling guilty or excessively controlling. If my kids behaved though, or had a loss of motivation or a moment of terror/doubt (like Mirai maybe), I don't know if I could deliver any kind of arse-kicking.

[floskate]

Like I said, it can be delivered in different ways and it may be as little as sitting down and having a chat to put things into perspective. It all depends on the student. Of course Performing Arts, like skating, does attract many high achieving, talented and driven individuals (many of whom can be quite highly strung) and you don't need to give them any kind of discipline to work hard. Sometimes it's the exact opposite - they can work too hard and their frustration at not being able to do something right away can actually block the learning process. So in that instance it's almost like reverse psychology, where relaxing and not getting so strung up over one little thing would actually benefit their learning in the long term, rather than keep getting frustrated and blocking themselves. High achievers often need that push to actually take a step back from it all, to 'put things into perspective' just as much as many need a push to work that little bit harder to maximise their potential. I can get very work obsessed and am terrible for bringing it home with me, chewing ot over, stressing and such. My partner is very well versed in giving me the kick up the arse I sometimes need to realise that I do live with another person who is more important than my job, that my priorities are completely out of whack and I need to get a better work/life balance if we're going to be happy together!! Same thing, just different purposes

Sorry for the drift; back to topic - if it's not flogged to death already

[taf2002]

Apparently Hersh has another article out on this matter. I guess Mirai does know how to stand up for herself after all. Here's a little snippet from it:

Very funny but there are people here that will believe Mirai actually said this. Maybe you should post a disclaimer.

If you know, can you please tell us how Tonya's coaches (both Teachman and Rawlinson) viewed their pupil? Obviously, they must have gotten exasperated at times, but were they generally forgiving of her shortcomings, or were they just livid half the time?

At the Olympics Tonya and Rawlinson had parted ways. Dodi was with Tonya and had a full time job getting her to skate rather than talk to the press. I made her room with Calla Urbanski and they kept Tonya from being too much of a problem in the Village.

I watched Tonya skate for years before the whack. There was always some kind of drama going on with her, there was always a reason when she skated bad to get a restart: broken zipper, loose skateblade, costume falling apart, etc. I remember it said one nationals, can't remember if it was a fluff piece or just the commentators talking about all the things that had been tried to help her & she would reject help.

And even with all her shenanigans she received funding, so if they wanted to get rid of her they could have stopped her funding. She was bad PR at a time when the ladies skating was portrayed as pwetty princesses but the USFSA stuck with her & she basically gave them the finger. The whack was the last straw and why they backed down & let her go to the Olys I'll never understand. The FBI had mucho proof she was behind the whack scheme.

[DreamSkates]

I think Mirai is a free spirit and her personality isn't typical of someone who's an olympic athlete so it's hard. While it's cute and funny how she's so honest, silly, and untamed I'm not so sure how well it meshes with being an elite athlete. I think if she's serious about being at the top of the sport she has to make some attitude changes as she can't rely on her talent alone to get her there. It's lonely at the top, but for Mirai, she actually has a shot of getting there if she wants it enough. I'm hoping her not making the world team will be a wakeup call for her and that she'll get her priorities straight and make the decision to either a.) continue on as usual and accept that she won't always win/medal/make competitive teams every time out or b.) buckle down and work really hard to become the best in the sport.

As for Frank coaching a lot of middle of the road skaters, a lot of those skaters don't have Mirai's talent so he knows they can't make it to the top even if they really wanted to, but he knows how talented Mirai is and seems to want her to be more successful than even she does. It must be awfully frustrating for Frank and despite the blurbs we've heard I think he and Mirai have a good relationship, even though she's obviously difficult at times.

I think this is right on target. You have to have more than talent and technique to get to the top. She has to develop something that will contain her free spirit and use that free spirit energy on the ice. Consider other "free spirit" skaters - Nicole Bobek, for example, who won Nationals but not much else. You've got to confront who you are and manage that to get where you want to go in life.

[Coco]

I believe it was the 40 million dollar lawsuit. That's why they backed down.

[neptune]

^^ Nicely done Neptune!

Thanks, Cheylana.

At the Olympics Tonya and Rawlinson had parted ways. Dodi was with Tonya and had a full time job getting her to skate rather than talk to the press. I made her room with Calla Urbanski and they kept Tonya from being too much of a problem in the Village.

Thanks, Morry. Yes, I know that Tonya had been with Teachman for at least a couple of years. It sounds like she had a tough time with Tonya, but I don't recall seeing her ever lose her cool or anything. Calla sounds like she would've made a suitable roommate for Tonya.

Very funny but there are people here that will believe Mirai actually said this. Maybe you should post a disclaimer.

Thanks, taf2002. As for posting a disclaimer, your post (as well as Cheylana's) pretty much accomplishes just that. Besides, it's not like FSU is CNN.com or anything. You always have to take stuff on here with a grain o' salt. If anyone really believes that Mirai said that, then please send me their contact info, because I have some dehydrated water that I wanna sell them.

[neptune]

The FBI had mucho proof she was behind the whack scheme.

I wish that had been made public so that folks could decide for themselves. If she had confessed to being passively involved in the attack, I wonder how much time she would've gotten? I wouldn't imagine more than a few months, if that.

I think this is right on target. You have to have more than talent and technique to get to the top. She has to develop something that will contain her free spirit and use that free spirit energy on the ice. Consider other "free spirit" skaters - Nicole Bobek, for example, who won Nationals but not much else. You've got to confront who you are and manage that to get where you want to go in life.

I agree with PUNKPRINCESS that a team like Yuka and Jason might work well for Mirai.

[loopey]

I agree with PUNKPRINCESS that a team like Yuka and Jason might work well for Mirai.

Not to mention allegedly moving across the country and living on her own for the first time. That alone would work wonders in maturity for a 17 year old.

When I moved away for the first time, I had to shop for my own groceries, cook my own food, do my own laundry, drive myself everywhere, and in general take care of myself. I recommend this for most young ladies (especially this generation of 17 year olds). Oh the drama.

[Morry Stillwell]

The perfect roommate. Calla will NOT take crap from anyone! (Love Calla, I'm a VERY low level skater, and as I went to take the ice at Philly Areas 2007, she gave me a big smile and shouted "Good Luck" as I headed out. I swear I was so blown away having a national champion wish me good luck that I forgot to be nervous and had one of my better skates!)

Calla has always been great and she was a great enforcer at the Olympics. Rocky was also one of the dependable ones. I had him baby sit Christopher.

[neptune]

Calla has always been great and she was a great enforcer at the Olympics.

Calla the Enforcer.

[taf2002]

I think that 17 is too young to move so far from home. Even if Mirai lived in the same house with her coach, it's still too young for someone like her.