Mirai vs. Frank

[jlai]

I get kind of exasperated seeing all these posts about how lazy Mirai is and how Frank is trying so hard to get her to reach her potential and she's just unwilling. What I see is a bad, overzealous attitude on the part of Frank Carroll. I think people are all too willing to take his side of the story. Yes, he's had 2 great champions. But a bunch of mid-pack skaters too. And his attitude towards her in the KnC was awful.

This is why I like John Nicks. He cultivates amazing skaters without stomping on their being.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Mirai didn't make the world team; so what? Many didn't. At least she podiumed. Why is it necessary to pin the blame on skater or coach? And why is it necessary to blame the coach as a way of defending a skater who's supposedly "attacked"?

Mirai knew what kind of coach Frank is before she signed up. She picked him and watned to train under him--it is not as if this is a student randomly assigned to an unsuitable teacher by USFSA.

This is not about buying Frank's side of the story or Mirai's --life is hardly so simple. I just don't understand why people need to judge others based on a few interactions they see--unless people here have inside stories?

And why should people we consider "public figures" be held at a higher level than we hold ourselves? Lord knows, even parents say something wrong occasionally or give the wrong advice, let along teachers or coaches.

Re: Nicks. Not everyone likes the gentler approach. Different strokes for diff folks

[Jammers]

It's time for Mirai to grow up. Soon she will be 18. Frank was upset because she didn't go out and try to win. She was already beaten before she skated after seeing Alissa's marks. And her sloppy mistakes on things like her spins should never happen. Yet it's happened twice now. She needs to get serious about her skating career and stop playing around. I love Mirai's spirit and talent but she needs to harness it.

[Jagerboy]

Who was the male skater that had a bad skate and fell right before his footwork this year, I think it was the short program to Michael Jackson? Peter O and Karen Kwan are his coaches and they actually laughed with him in the Kiss and Cry and made him feel at ease. They could have let him have it, but instead, they took the high road and I am assure will adress the issues in private.

[John 3 17]

Thanks, floskate, for the examples. I will say that when Frank said that to Bowman, Bowman was a drug-addict and I didn't have a problem with the tough love (I love Bowman, don't get me wrong); treating Mirai, who is not anywhere near the bad-boy Bowman, in such a manner from a man who coached a skater like Bowman, is OTT to me.

As for the example of TAT and Mao... Mao isn't with her anymore, is she. Midori never won an OGM, so it seems that kind of coaching maybe didn't work for her either.

-Bridget

[loopey]

I remember Charlene Wong grabbing Mirai and shaking her before her LP in 2009 (Wong looked angry). Mirai had skated a disasterous short (after winning in 2008). Mirai looked positively hysterical when they announced her name for the LP and Wong practically shoved her on the ice.

I meant rude in the K&C after the skater screwed up... Wong sounds like she just motivated her before a skate.

-Bridget

I'm sorry just popped into the Last page of this thread to kind of get a gist of what it was all about. This cracks me up. Charlene allegedly grabbed and shoved Mirai and you answer back "she was motivating Mirai", and FC said she gave away a comp and appeared frustrated and you don't understand his behavior?

Doesn't anyone but me, find this a little funny?

[John 3 17]

But Wong did it before a skate, not kicked her when she was down after a skate. And, I'm comparing Frank with Frank. Frank usually doesn't act this way. BTW, I was kind of thinking there was a little exaggeration in the post I was replying to and will try to find the clip for myself on youtube or dig out my dvd; but I still think there's a difference in the before/after timing.

-Bridget

[arakwafan2006]

Though Mirai is an amazing skater and very talented, she spends a lot of time coming across as a dorky kid. She is on a road to being a woman who it stuck in a girly girly cutesey cutesey persona for a long time. Also, she almost has a character trait that I have. I am very talented at a lot of things but no matter how many people tell me; and I am also aware of the fact, a lot of times, I just don’t complete things once I can see the finish line. Mirai has been the leader how many times? She can do clean programs but its almost like she’s comfortable with the fact that she’s got potential whether she realizes it or not. Hard to explain but I get it.

With respect to the silliness about Frank being mean; whatever dude. If it was the first time Mirai blew it then Frank would be understanding. He was to Michelle when she had mistakes that costed her. Why would he baby Mirai when she is a young woman not a little girl. She is an Olympian who acts really immature at times to be honest. I believe you should attack weakness not pacify it. It was clear that her heart was not in that free skate and she is simply too good to basically flunk like that. Still, that’s what she chose. Though Frank is well paid for his tutelage, when a coach invests so much of themselves into a student and the student repeatedly throws it away, most coaches get fed up. It’s really disrespectful actually. Mirai needs to decide what she wants for one thing and for another, we need to wait on her to grow up. Frank is not the problem. He’s the best thing for her.

BTW, John Nicks is no slouch. Does anyone remember him voicing his opinion towards the press with Sasha Cohen and the quad at Skate America? Maybe Mirai should go to Robin Wagner and get babied like Elene Gedevanishvili gets. If there was ever a skater who needed a stern hand…

[Doubletoe]

Who was the male skater that had a bad skate and fell right before his footwork this year, I think it was the short program to Michael Jackson? Peter O and Karen Kwan are his coaches and they actually laughed with him in the Kiss and Cry and made him feel at ease. They could have let him have it, but instead, they took the high road and I am assure will adress the issues in private.

Sean Rabitt. But his is a different story. It's his first year as a Senior and when he slipped and fell on nothing, that was just the kind of fluke that could happen to anyone, especially someone who is really excited just to be competing at Nationals as a Senior for the first time.

The question is, is there something about Mirai that makes her coaches air her dirty laundry to the media? I remember being flabbergasted when Charlene Wong would divulge negative things about Mirai in interviews, because I know Charlene and she is one of those people who just never says anything negative, period. And now Frank is doing the same thing. My theory is that Mirai's coaches end up resorting to whatever works for her, and that's discipline and negative reinforcement. Mirai herself said that she comes from a culture where negative reinforcement works better than praise, so it's no wonder that's what they end up doing to get her butt in gear. The public shame of having her bad attitude publicized in the media would be another way to get through to someone brought up in the Japanese culture, since one of the worst things you can do is to bring shame upon yourself and your family. Maybe the only way to get her to be a diligent student is to hang that over her head.

[senorita]

And why should people we consider "public figures" be held at a higher level than we hold ourselves

I thought ALL we should be graceful and polite, and politically correct on the media that is the fs purpose. (joke)

The thing is not what Caroll could have said to Mirai off the record, they should probably have a long talk about her performances,and he should kick her butt to wake up and be more confident or whatever. Or whatever it needs for her to improve.
It is rather strange though to give your own skater away to the media. Support them in defeat in public, not only when they win the Olympic Medal. What is the use of saying this and the public would know?

Maybe he will dumb her like he did with Goebel.

[triple_toe]

But Wong did it before a skate, not kicked her when she was down after a skate. And, I'm comparing Frank with Frank. Frank usually doesn't act this way. BTW, I was kind of thinking there was a little exaggeration in the post I was replying to and will try to find the clip for myself on youtube or dig out my dvd; but I still think there's a difference in the before/after timing.

-Bridget

Wait, so you think Charlene kicking her out onto the ice before the program and then being happy after the program is better than Frank telling Mirai she's the best skater in the world before the skate, but making a quick remark after that she blew it? What if Frank had said "don't be an idiot and blow it" before the skate? Would you be applauding him? Obviously having a happy coach both before and after is ideal, but personally, I'd rather have a coach be pissed at me after I screwed up than before I even start my program. Also, how do you think Charlene would have reacted if Mirai hadn't skated that well? Do you really think she would have been all rainbows and puppies?

[floskate]

Thanks, floskate, for the examples. I will say that when Frank said that to Bowman, Bowman was a drug-addict and I didn't have a problem with the tough love (I love Bowman, don't get me wrong); treating Mirai, who is not anywhere near the bad-boy Bowman, in such a manner from a man who coached a skater like Bowman, is OTT to me.

As for the example of TAT and Mao... Mao isn't with her anymore, is she. Midori never won an OGM, so it seems that kind of coaching maybe didn't work for her either.

-Bridget

No of course she isn't but just because she's Mirai, why should she somehow be protected from a home truth that Frank felt was justified? She's not 6 years old!!

Tat still choreographs for Mao and from what I've read ties are definitely NOT severed even though she's coached by Sato now. And Midori was a tough case because Yamada was pretty much her only coach as well as a surrogate Mother. When Midori's parents divorced, she went to live with Yamada aged 9 I believe so lines were very much blurred in taht particular case. Her not winning the OGM isn't really proof of Yamada being the wrong coach for Midori.

And how could I forget Jutta Muller? I'm sure it was Kati Witt who wrote in her biography that while she (Muller) was preening for the cameras in the K&C and stroking her skaters faces, she was digging her nails into their thighs and demanding to know why they'd missed a certain jump - all through those smiles to camera!!

[John 3 17]

I don't expect coaches to be "rainbows and puppies" I never said I did (besides, if I did I'd want "rainbows and kitties ) Just do it in private. As long as Mirai and her parents are fine with it, I don't think it's my business, but when it's in public there's going to be discussion.

floskate, Frank can say whatever "home truths" to Mirai -- in private. But he did this in public so it's a given that we'd talk about it.

-Bridget

[rfisher]

PML. Some of you have never been an athlete or played a sport with a coach. I remember many basketball bus rides home in absolute silence and having to pee in a coke bottle because we weren't stopping. Girl's basketball I might add. All because we blew a game that our coach felt we should have won. That's to say nothing of the laps we ran the next day or what was said in the locker room or to you on the bench. If you can't take the training, you'll never be an elite athlete in any sport.

And there's alltogether a difference in how a coach reacts a skater who doesn't have a prayer of winnings performance and one who does. Sean Rabbit is a perfect example.

[brina]

rfisher, this may be true, but do you think given the opportunity, that your coach would have spoken on public grounds to the media about how lazy you and your team were?

[floskate]

I don't expect coaches to be "rainbows and puppies" I never said I did (besides, if I did I'd want "rainbows and kitties ) Just do it in private. As long as Mirai and her parents are fine with it, I don't think it's my business, but when it's in public there's going to be discussion.

floskate, Frank can say whatever "home truths" to Mirai -- in private. But he did this in public so it's a given that we'd talk about it.

-Bridget

And I have no issue with it being done in public. It makes the sport a whole lot more interesting to me. It was a legitimate statement delivered as just that. As I've already said, he didn't bawl at her or swear or even say it in a nasty way. It was what it was. The truth, and the fact that it was said in public is neither here nor there to me. Isn't skating fake enough without skaters and coaches posing for happy family snaps in the K&C after sub-par skates and smiling through clenched teeth creating totally awful awkward atmospheres knowing there's gonna be hell to pay as soon as they get backstage? He was honest with her and I'm sure she doesn't have an issue with it at all. If she does she can do the typical teenage thing and tweet to 'stop to tell a lie F', move to john Nicks and then we can all endure thread upon thread blaming Frank or blaming Mirai

[senorita]

^^not to mention you peed in the coke
I have been an athlete and blew bigger time than Mirai in competitions but I wouldnt like to be told off via Hersh, I prefer the private way.
Maybe thats the reason I was not a successful one though.

[Morry Stillwell]

I get kind of exasperated seeing all these posts about how lazy Mirai is and how Frank is trying so hard to get her to reach her potential and she's just unwilling. What I see is a bad, overzealous attitude on the part of Frank Carroll. I think people are all too willing to take his side of the story. Yes, he's had 2 great champions. But a bunch of mid-pack skaters too. And his attitude towards her in the KnC was awful. I don't think he's as great as he seems to think. And I think he is destroying Mirai a bit. She needs someone more fun and less bent on changing her whole being. Anyone see it the same?


.

Frank Carrol and John Nicks are both superior Coaches. A skater always gets what they put into the relationship when being coached by either Frank or John.

They both are very cool and precise when they coach a skater. It has been my fortune to be at the boards with them at Olympics, Worlds, Nationals and many other events. You are dam right that both John and Frank are disappointed when a skater does not live up to potential. Beyond the fact that both John and Frank are great coaches they are real gentlemen in the traditional sense.

Morry Stillwell

[Jenna]

I agree that Frank is an outstanding coach, one of the finest in the United States. I'm just not sure if he is the right choice for Mirai. I could see her with Nicks, Oppegard, or Gambill in the future.

[Satellitegirl]

Sure she can leave. She can decide if she wants a real shot at an OGM and train like she needs to or she can skate for fun at an expensive cost. The decision is hers to make.

If I had a kid who had the talent and desire to be a champion figure skater, I'd send them to Frank Carroll in a heartbeat.

Agreed x 10000000

And I believe Mirai would tell those who think they know better than her what coach she needs, that they're crazy, and she loves being coached by Frank. Frank is structured, and Mirai obviously wants that. He keeps her on her toes and working hard.

[loopey]

rfisher, this may be true, but do you think given the opportunity, that your coach would have spoken on public grounds to the media about how lazy you and your team were?

And I have no issue with it being done in public.

Phil Jackson doesn't seem to have a problem with calling out Kobe Bryant (the ball hog), Ron Artest (a really bad shooter), Andrew Bynum (questionable work ethic), etc. etc. etc. He's been doing it for a looooong time. I also remember Tommy LaSorda letting a couple of his players have it in the media.

Maybe it's because I live in the LA area, and follow sports in the LA Times, but I can't think of any professional coach that hasn't called out one of his players at one time or another. And USC/UCLA coaches do it too.

I doubt Kobe gets his 140 million dollar panties in a bunch over anything Phil says. For crying out loud, Phil wrote a book and blasted Kobe Monday-Friday and then ended up coaching him again.

If Frank Carroll was anybody but Frank Carroll, I would be expecting a tell-all book with many juicy details of his students. He could probably retire in massive luxury with just the chapters on Kwan alone if he wanted to. Now that would be when we need to talk about Frank's behavior. Do it Frank, Do it!