Mirai vs. Frank

[senorita]

I dont know but whoever said it Hersh or Caroll, shouldnt have said it for a 17 year old. For none actually.

[aliceanne]

[QUOTE=Ziggy;3058325]Finally!

My sources claim that this is exactly what Frank is like. At least some skaters feel that way about him.

Why do these skaters pick him as their coach then? It's no secret what he is like. He has been interviewed countless times, they see him on tv every year. My impression of him has always been of a stern disciplinarian. If that's not what Mirai wants she should go to someone else.

[John 3 17]

Just watched Adam's SP and Brian chewing him out after - which no one seems to be making too much of a fuss about but I guess it's ok 'cos Adam's a man and he can take it whereas Mirai is America's next ice princess and should be treated accordingly It's sports, this is what happens.

Maybe because Adam's SP wasn't aired on TV and not everyone here subscribes to IN?? I certainly don't, so I didn't know.

To anyone else who's just fine w/ what FC did the other day, please name me other incidences of top-level, well-known coaches (obviously other than Brian Orser from the MSP, which I missed) who were rude in the K&C knowing they were on national tv. I really can't think of another and that's why I'm disappointed in FC for his behavior here.

-Bridget

[rfisher]

Sure she can leave. She can decide if she wants a real shot at an OGM and train like she needs to or she can skate for fun at an expensive cost. The decision is hers to make.

If I had a kid who had the talent and desire to be a champion figure skater, I'd send them to Frank Carroll in a heartbeat.

[John 3 17]

Frank? abusive? Otay....



This is bull. Michelle went out there & tried her best; Mirai didn't. Michelle had a comp like Mirai at the Goodwill Games, I forgot what year but both she & Tim Goebel just totally blew if for no good reason & Frank acted exactly the same to them as to Mirai. When your parents are disappointed in you because they know you could do better but just didn't try your best do they say it's ok or do they show their disapproval?

How do you know she didn't "try her best"? It was her best that night.

Originally Posted by brina
To me it isn't even about the stuff Frank said to her in the K&C, it's more about the stuff he's saying to the media. If I were Mirai I would be questioning why I (or my family) am paying this man when he is saying all of these embarrassing things in public. Sure there is an interest in why she didn't perform up to the level she could, but why spew it out in such a fashion that makes Mirai look like a lazy slacker?? He could say, she wasn't prepared enough. Better luck next season, and that is that. The trash-talking makes one wonder if he's trying to save his own image over the situation, whereas the "tough love" could definitely be done between Frank and Mirai alone.

Especially when Frank of ALL people knows what a true slacker is: Chris Bowman. Chris Bowman was a drug-addict. Mirai's not. He shouldn't be talking about her this way in public.


-Bridget

[John 3 17]

.

[John 3 17]

But did Frank say that or was that Hersh's extrapolation of what he said?

Frank must've said something along those lines for Hersh to guess that's what he meant. Frank is an OLD HAND dealing with the media and should know that the media will "extrapolate"; he should've been more careful talking to Hersh if he didn't want this said this way; he's no newbie.

And as for th "mooning" comment, what skater doesn't bend over to tie their laces in front of the cameras for all the world to see? Maybe they do it closer to the boards and he's mad that she did it at center ice but to tell HERSH this is a blunder.

-Bridget

[aliceanne]

Maybe because Adam's SP wasn't aired on TV and not everyone here subscribes to IN?? I certainly don't, so I didn't know.

To anyone else who's just fine w/ what FC did the other day, please name me other incidences of top-level, well-known coaches (obviously other than Brian Orser from the MSP, which I missed) who were rude in the K&C knowing they were on national tv. I really can't think of another and that's why I'm disappointed in FC for his behavior here.

-Bridget

I remember Charlene Wong grabbing Mirai and shaking her before her LP in 2009 (Wong looked angry). Mirai had skated a disasterous short (after winning in 2008). Mirai looked positively hysterical when they announced her name for the LP and Wong practically shoved her on the ice.

She ended up skating well and was shown backstage laughing with her competitors afterward.

I don't know anything about Mirai's training habits, but apparently she is quite a handful at competitions.

[John 3 17]

I meant rude in the K&C after the skater screwed up... Wong sounds like she just motivated her before a skate.

-Bridget

[LuckyCharm]

Frank must've said something along those lines for Hersh to guess that's what he meant. Frank is an OLD HAND dealing with the media and should know that the media will "extrapolate"; he should've been more careful talking to Hersh if he didn't want this said this way; he's no newbie.

And as for the "mooning" comment, what skater doesn't bend over to tie their laces in front of the cameras for all the world to see? Maybe they do it closer to the boards and he's mad that she did it at center ice but to tell HERSH this is a blunder.

-Bridget

Why? Everybody saw it anyway. Now, why did Hersh print it? It didn't seem to have much to do with anything else that was said, unless he was thinking it was further evidence of Mirai's nonchalance.

[rfisher]

I meant rude in the K&C after the skater screwed up... Wong sounds like she just motivated her before a skate.

-Bridget

Since you said you don't have IN, you missed all the interaction between them during the GP events. You don't have the whole story.

[John 3 17]

Since you said you don't have IN, you missed all the interaction between them during the GP events. You don't have the whole story.

Um, that's why I'm asking? AND, I'm asking about other coaches besides Frank and Brian O. What other top-level coach has acted so rudely in the K & C after their skater has screwed up knowing they were on national tv? I've never seen it in all my decades of watching skating on TV. Frank knew he was on national TV and he hasn't acted like this before that I cn remember.

-Bridget

[senorita]

It is her own team, I would expect to protect her in media exposure, not say more and cause discussions. It looked like he wanted to justify her skate and not take the responsibility for the failure (and now i saw it it is not a melt down as I thought from descriptions), she skated a great sp and made a wobble in 2axel and a major spin mistake in Lp, this does not justify his words and she is just 17,how exactly these words in public serve the progress of his skater?

[John 3 17]

Why? Everybody saw it anyway. Now, why did Hersh print it? It didn't seem to have much to do with anything else that was said, unless he was thinking it was further evidence of Mirai's nonchalance.

Because no one ever thinks that when a skater bends over to tie their laces, it's "mooning". Skaters do it all. the. time. For Frank to make an issue out of it to the press, it comes across as highly unusual.

Frank was mad at MK when she was 12 for showing up with banged up skates. He didn't run to tell the press. He reprimanded her in private.

-Bridget

[jlai]

I don't understand this thread. Mirai didn't make the world team; so what? Many didn't. Why is it necessary to try to pin the blame on someone-- skater or coach?

Mirai knows what kind of coach Frank is before she signed up. She picked him and watned to train under him--it is not as if this is a student randomly assigned to an unsuitable teacher by USFSA.

[John 3 17]

jlai, this thread isn't about pinning blame for MN not making the team. It's about FC unusual behavior in the K & C.

-Bridget

[triple_toe]

Manon Perron is a perfect example of a coach who was extremely strict but never behaved in ways mentioned in this thread.

Well, she did fire Joannie for a time.

The truth is, lots of coaches can be considered jerks to their skaters and it's up to the skater to decide if that works for them or not. None of us know the situation between Frank and Mirai, how her training was going, what he had told her before the competition, etc. She's been working with him long enough to understand his training methods. As has been mentioned before, she went to him specifically for his tough love approach. Maybe Frank was speaking to her in a way he knew she needed to be spoken to. It's not like he yelled at her the whole time she was in the kiss and cry. It was an immediate response to how she skated, one sentence spoken in a fairly quiet manner. I didn't even hear the first bit until I watched it again, specifically listening for it.

Bottom line, Mirai will leave if she feels he is too abusive. Frank's style is not for everyone, and he might be harsher than some, but you'd be hard pressed to find a coach that doesn't act like a hard ass occasionally. Some coaches are genuinely abusive as well, but they usually don't have amazing results. The truly great coaches know how to be tough without being cruel, and know when reassurance is needed over criticism. Frank's longevity and ability to produce champions through 3 major eras of sport (figures, 6.0, COP) speaks for itself. His methods obviously work for a certain type of skater. Whether Mirai is that skater remains to be seen.

There's only one spot on top of the podium, and if you're never going to get there if you can't take negative comments. You need to be hard as a rock mentally and have the ability to control your emotions. The truth is, champions are usually tougher on themselves than any coach will be. Skating is a cruel, cruel sport that chews athletes up and spits them out. It unfortunate and my heart always aches in situations like Mirai's, but it's the nature of the beast. I wish her nothing but the best, whether with Frank of without.

[Doubletoe]

Is Mirai really a goof-off, though? Have all her coaches said that about her?

YES. Charlene Wong is on record as saying the exact same things about Mirai that Frank is now saying (challenging, stubborn, lazy, etc.), and she also said that in the year after her national championship, she hardly ever did long program run-throughs. I also know one of her former coaches who coached her for 9 years, who told me that not only is she very headstrong, but she was such a gifted skater that she never had to work very hard. This longtime coach also said Mirai's mother has been a problem, making decisions that go against her coaches' requests and also encouraging bad habits. Her mother used to reward her for cheating her jump landings on the toepick and would scold her for falling or otherwise not completing a jump, and this is probably why she still reverts to cheating jump landings on the toe when she is nervous (i.e., the long program).

Is it any wonder she ended up switching to a coach who had a very firm hand? I'm not Frank's #1 fan, but I certainly don't think he should be blamed for being a disciplinarian. It's what she needs, and that's why she's with him. She has also been known to be a basket case right before the long program. I've never seen Frank or Charlene have to give any other skater a kick in the pants just to get them on the ice like they have had to do with Mirai.

[floskate]

Maybe because Adam's SP wasn't aired on TV and not everyone here subscribes to IN?? I certainly don't, so I didn't know.

To anyone else who's just fine w/ what FC did the other day, please name me other incidences of top-level, well-known coaches (obviously other than Brian Orser from the MSP, which I missed) who were rude in the K&C knowing they were on national tv. I really can't think of another and that's why I'm disappointed in FC for his behavior here.

-Bridget

I'm in the UK and don't have IN either, but where there's a will....

Ok so other coaches who've chewed out their skaters in public:

Tarasova destroyed Mao at TEB in 2008 after the free skate. Someone translated it and she was rattling on about her mistakes then said disdainfully - 'you couldn't even do rittberger'. Luckily for Mao I don't think she understood a word.

Carlo Fassi could be pretty vocal, especially to the press. He called Robin a chicken for doubling his SP combination at 1980 Europeans and when asked about it Robin agreed with him.

Oh and who can forget our own very dear Frank again at 1990 Worlds after Bowman's improvised LP. ''What was that program? I've never seen that program before''. I mean that whole coach/skater relationship was so infamous they actually did fluff pieces on it at 1990 Worlds.

Oh and then of course there's Machiko Yamada's treatment of Midori Ito at the 1984 Junior Worlds in Japan. Midori won the free and came 3rd overall but made a couple of errors in her LP. Yamada absolutely chewed her out in the press conference which was well documented in reports of the event and there are rumours that she actually slapped her in full view of press and such backstage. Obviously that's absolutely outrageous.

These are just ones that spring to mind. Most times you can't hear what's said so we don't have a clue do we? You don't like it? Fair enough, but it's nothing new in this sport. At all. And it's certainly not just Frank Carroll.

[triple_toe]

Exactly floskate. Who should Mirai go to? Tarasova? John Nicks? Tom Z.? Arutunian? Callaghan? Galina & Viktor? Mitchell & Johansson? Because they're all so lovey-dovey.