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Thread: Mirai vs. Frank

  1. #21
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    I just watched it; first of all, I love that programme; it's really grown on me. I'm totally bummed we won't see that at worlds. What a shame about those sloppy mistakes - and that's clearly the problem. Mirai skates like this fairly often; good but not great - and, most significantly, not up to her potential. Frank probably knows how amazing she is and could be, and is probably pissed off with her apparent inability to skate "clutch." And, if rumours are true, if she is lazy and at times difficult in training, he's probably pissed off with that too - if she could bring all that energy together at the right times and skate lights out he'd probably be more tolerant of it, but as she doesn't, and as that attitude isn't pushing her in a positive direction, he might well be sick of it. I was a bit @ his reaction in the KnC, but maybe it was a deliberate move by him. Tough love n all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post

    But did she really "give it away," or was she simply being human? It doesn't really matter IMO if it's the truth. If I tell someone that they're fat and ugly, and it's just the truth, is that OK? If Mirai's failing to nail the program was due to gross negligence on her part, then I can understand Frank's reaction. But if she honestly gave it her best but just came up short, I think such treatment in the K&C is harsh.
    That's a ridiculous comparison and you know it. Of course it's not ok to say that someone is fat and ugly; that's a whole lot different than pointing out the reason why you're about to lose a national title. With all his years of experience in this field at the top level, I have a very hard time believing that Frank would say something just because he was pissed at her for not skating well enough to win. I'm sure there's more to it than that.

    Oh and watching that skate did you really get the feeling she was giving her best? She'd clearly psyched herself out before she even started and carried it right through the performance. You can see it in her eyes, she was petrified and looked as though she'd rather be anywhere else.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    That's a ridiculous comparison and you know it. Of course it's not ok to say that someone is fat and ugly;
    But you implied that because what Frank said was true, then it was acceptable to say that. I'm just saying that isn't always the case. Dear Abby has always said that, before speaking something, one should ask: "Is it true? Is it kind? Is it interesting?" If one can't speak the truth with kindness, then better to keep one's mouth shut IMO.

    With all his years of experience in this field at the top level, I have a very hard time believing that Frank would say something just because he was pissed at her for not skating well enough to win. I'm sure there's more to it than that.
    There could be.

    Oh and watching that skate did you really get the feeling she was giving her best? She'd clearly psyched herself out before she even started and carried it right through the performance. You can see it in her eyes, she was petrified and looked as though she'd rather be anywhere else.
    Well, truth be told, skating in front of millions would be a kind of frightening experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    But you implied that because what Frank said was true, then it was acceptable to say that. I'm just saying that isn't always the case. Dear Abby has always said that, before speaking something, one should ask: "Is it true? Is it kind? Is it interesting?" If one can't speak the truth with kindness, then better to keep one's mouth shut IMO.
    Which I just freely admitted. Frank did not cross the line of what is acceptable to say and what is not IMO. And if we all adhered to Dear Abby's sentiments then the world would most likely be mute and this forum an absolute ghost town

    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Well, truth be told, skating in front of millions would be a kind of frightening experience.
    Errr, she's an elite figure skater. Performing in front of millions kind of comes with the deal. If that's really an issue for her she needs to deal with it asap.

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    This thread is all about Mirai being a girl or there would have been a Brian Orser thread.

    Nicks' two most accomplished singles skaters were Chin and Cohen. Chin was coached by Frank Carroll all the way up to winning the Junior World Championship. Cohen gave a World Championship to Kimmie Meissner and really never skated much better than Fumie Suguri at the two same Olympics. This is not to say that Nicks is not the best Pairs coach in US history.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-31-2011 at 11:52 AM.

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    I thought Frank came off as incredibly rude with his sarcastic "I'm sorry" the minute she came off the ice. Also his put-on carmudgeon act when the stuffed tiger hit him was a little OTT.

    I didn't appreciate his unhappy, grumpy attitude when he met her as she got off the ice, either. When I played the dvd for my mom (without saying a word about it to bias her) she said the same thing.

    I really think she needs a new coach. She is a treasure and it's just not working with Frank. I don't want her to lose her joy which will lead to the sport losing her.

    -Bridget

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Frank has coached multiple world/Olympic gold medalists. He strikes me as a very strict coach, but he doesn't strike me as cruel coach. The same coach that scolded Mirai for not attacking, also told her she was the best skater in the world a few minutes before. He strikes me as the type of coach who will praise you if you do well and scold you if you don't do your best, why is this a bad thing?
    I heard him say that, too (about her being the best in the world), but the tone of voice to me was odd. It sounded like he was sick of saying it and was weary. I wondered before she skated if that actually may have put more pressure on her? Of course it could've worked confidence in her jsut as easily, but the thought did go through my mind.

    -Bridget

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    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    I thought Frank came off as incredibly rude with his sarcastic "I'm sorry" the minute she came off the ice. Also his put-on carmudgeon act when the stuffed tiger hit him was a little OTT.

    I didn't appreciate his unhappy, grumpy attitude when he met her as she got off the ice, either. When I played the dvd for my mom (without saying a word about it to bias her) she said the same thing.

    I really think she needs a new coach. She is a treasure and it's just not working with Frank. I don't want her to lose her joy which will lead to the sport losing her.

    -Bridget
    The way he reacted to the stuffed animal was absolutely ridiculous! He acted like someone threw a brick at him.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by UWDawg View Post
    The way he reacted to the stuffed animal was absolutely ridiculous! He acted like someone threw a brick at him.
    I don't know anybody 70 years or older that likes being hit with anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    I really think she needs a new coach. She is a treasure and it's just not working with Frank. I don't want her to lose her joy which will lead to the sport losing her.

    -Bridget
    When I reflect on my time studying and performing music, there were many more billable hours of frustration than there was free time to enjoy ovation. Joy is the reward for performing well.

  11. #31
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    Didn't he get hammered by a weighted stuffie at some comp a couple of years ago? Cup of China maybe? Can't remember where but I'm sure he actually got hurt. Might explain the dirty look he gave. Also the 'I'm sorry' comment didn't sound like sarcasm to me, it was more like an implication of 'yes I'm afraid that's what you just did and you're going to have to deal with that'.

    Maybe we're just more used to people calling a spade a spade over here but I really don't get what all the fuss is about.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post
    Yes, he's had 2 great champions. But a bunch of mid-pack skaters too.
    He has 3 great champions, and, if you knew anything about statistics, you'd know almost everybody is mid-pack. What you are really saying is that most people should not try and/or participate.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    And, honestly, which approach is going to effect more positive change in a skater:

    You idiot--why didn't you attack???

    or

    I'm sorry your performance didn't go as we had planned. It hurts, I know. Hopefully this is something we can learn from.
    I have this point of reference that tells me that championship coaches speak this first way and therapists with loyal clients speak the second way. Just saying.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-31-2011 at 12:58 PM.

  14. #34

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    WTF? I love all the arm chair psychologists that seem to have an ability to read minds and know exactly what's going on between these two based on a few seconds, maybe minutes at most before she took to the ice and in the Kiss and cry. Seriously?

    ANt

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    I think what bothered me about this is that he did it in front of us. If he speaks to her that way in private and she and her parents are ok with it, whatever; but to kind of humiliate her in front of millions was unusual in ANY coach, let alone someone as repected as FC.

    P.S. ant, see? If he'd kept this private, arm-chair psychologists wouldn't be posting. It was like airing dirty laundry or something.

    -Bridget

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    Mirai should look for a new coach. It's obvious that Frank is fed up with her. Otherwise, why would he release such negative comments to Hersh of all people.

    Orser would be a good choice for her IMO if she doesn't mind moving to Toronto. He has a lassei faire approach that might accomodate Mirai better. She could do well commercially as well if she performs in shows with Rippon who seem to be popular in Japan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    The summer before I entered the fifth grade, I was taking some swimming lessons at a local YMCA. I used to bring this quart-sized container that had Kool-Aid in it with me. Anyway, one day my instructor was getting kind of nosy and picked it up. My response was essentially, "Leave that alone." I guess he didn't like that, so he promptly opened up the container and poured the Kool-Aid all over my head. It was kind of shocking. Looking back, I would consider that abuse. But can you imagine if he had done that to a young girl? He probably would've gotten fired.
    When I was a high school swimmer, my high school swimming pool was undergoing maintenance during a winter break, so we trained at a site where a year round club trained. During our practice, for some odd reason, my flip turns were consistently bad. A coach from the year round club that was observing our practice stopped me and told my to stop letting my ass hit the wall. It worked, and he was not even my coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Mirai should look for a new coach. It's obvious that Frank is fed up with her. Otherwise, why would he release such negative comments to Hersh of all people.

    Orser would be a good choice for her IMO if she doesn't mind moving to Toronto. He has a lassei faire approach that might accomodate Mirai better. She could do well commercially as well if she performs in shows with Rippon who seem to be popular in Japan.

    OH THE IRONY . . . TOO EASY!!!

    So are you saying that Mirai would have responded better to "I don't understand that at all... Jesus (?)" in the Kiss and Cry from the other coach that had a most recent singles OGMist.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-31-2011 at 01:07 PM.

  18. #38
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    I watched Mirai's free skate and it was not as bad as I thought from the comments. Anyway it was true that eventhought Mirai landed her jumps she for some reason gace up on spins. I think one needs to bee scolded for that. I don't think Frank was mean to her, I think he was just so dissapointed with her and ypu could hear it from his voice. But what he said was absolutely true and I think personality types like Mirai need that kind of feedback. Sympathy is no good when you know that it is your own fault. At the end of her program Mirai did not fight, she gave up. Mirai's personality type is not well suited for a professional athleat and it just something what will take work through her career.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by John 3 17 View Post
    I think what bothered me about this is that he did it in front of us. If he speaks to her that way in private and she and her parents are ok with it, whatever; but to kind of humiliate her in front of millions was unusual in ANY coach, let alone someone as repected as FC.

    That's the essence of it...."praise in public, condemn in private"....

    Why?... Because it's the right thing to do and the right way to behave.

    Oddly, all the eventual attention in the K&C was on Frank....WTF??

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    He has 3 great champions, and, if you knew anything about statistics, you'd know almost everybody is mid-pack. What you are really saying is that most people should not try and/or participate.
    No, what I'm saying is that its fine to have mid-level skaters, but at least help them improve from year to year. I get that Gong and Gonzales and Ten are not as naturally gifted as Mirai- but surely he can get Gong to emote and express music more than she did in every FS I've seen her skate this season. How can you watch that Salome and not compare it to Kwan's and see that she is skating as if the music isn't even there...and say, OK there's a major problem here, we need to fix this! That program was a travesty. Same for many of his other mid-pack skaters. It just seems like, similar to Tom Z, he is getting them to a certain point but not really getting them to their very best. Except Flatt and Bradley only very recently, but I get the feeling that was more self-inspired due to years of frustration of being so-so. I think he's lost his magic touch that he had in the 80s and 90s. Even with Lysacek, most of those programs were totally uninspiring save for the fact that Evan was so technically strong. I know he's not a choreographer, but I think he'd steer people more in the right direction with that stuff. But, whatever, just my opinion.
    Last edited by haribobo; 01-31-2011 at 02:40 PM.

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