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  1. #1
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    Will Wagner ever make it?

    Will Ashley Wagner ever place top 2 at any semi major event (even her own Nationals, Four Continents, etc...) or make a World team for the U.S again? It is looking like increasingly more likely no. She has been dominated by Flatt, Nagasu, and Zhang (although no longer Zhang the last 2 seasons) for years now, veteran Czisny is still going stronger than ever, and now Gao and Zawadzki are both flying past her too. At Nationals 2008 she had the 2 skates of her life and still finished only 3rd behind a faltering Nagasu and Flatt. She did the triple lutz-triple loop in both programs and didnt put a foot wrong. I cant imagine her ever skating at that level again, and even that wasnt good enough to put her in the top 2 which is quite possibly the likely cutoff for U.S women World team spots still.

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    It's possible but very slim; The skaters that placed ahead of her this year could very well mess up big time next year. What Ashley needs to do is to put together two clean programs at Nationals, which she has not done in the past few years.

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    If Alissa made it after all this time, Ashley can!
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

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    I don't see it happening. Sorry to say this, but I don't see much improvement in her skating. I was pulling for her to fix her flutz, when she said bye bye to outside edge last summer, but that promise didn't materialize. I don't know about Gao but Agnes will certainly surpass her next season.

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    Agnes and Gao finished above her at Nationals this year so havent they technically already surpassed her?

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    I don't think it is very likely, the judges don't seem to help her, maybe as when she did go to Worlds that one time she didn't skate very well. It's a shame if that turns out to be her only chance. Of course the US ladies all seem to be inconsistent so if she has a good week it could still happen.
    “What’s on the revengenda this evening?” – Nolan Ross

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    I don't see it happening:

    1. She's a headcase about the short
    2. She leans over and skates like a speed skater, bobbing up and down, every time that she wants to get some speed
    3. She double foots some of her jumps every time she gets nervous
    (including those "not a foot wrong" skates)
    4. She still flutzes

    She might fix those and the headcase thing, but there are now a lot of skaters that have surpassed her.

    But nothing is impossible; I didn't see Alissa skating a 6 triple program ever again either.

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    If Allisa can do it, she can too! I wouldn't count her out yet.
    Last edited by sbmeagain; 01-30-2011 at 01:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbmeagain View Post
    If Allisa can do it, she can too! I wouldn't count here out yet.
    I agree! I think Ashley's result at nationals will only make her work harder and she'll come back strong next season!

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    Skate for Germany for heaven's sake. She could medal at Euro's get a reputation and German fed have power - See 2004 with Lindenmann and Winkler and Lohse both medalling at Worlds.

  11. #11
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    Her program last night was a step back in terms of choreography. I guess I never noticed her lack of transitions, as well

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Agnes and Gao finished above her at Nationals this year so havent they technically already surpassed her?
    That's true. She's been surpassed and will need mistakes/growth spurt issues from them in order to be in the top 2 again. I think the US ladies will have 3 spots for the world team if not next year, the year after at latest. That should help Ashley.
    Last edited by Kwantumleap; 01-30-2011 at 02:49 PM.

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    I'm a huge Ashley fan but now even I doubt it, mostly for reasons outside of her control, namely so many great up-and-coming gals in their mid-teens. If she has the stamina and parental deep pockets to pull an Alissa and stay for 4-5 years, who knows?
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

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    I think she can but I think it depends on her body. Her recent health issues may prevent this.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

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    Rachael will not be there next year, and Agnes/Christina do not have the maturity or refinement that Ashley has so her chances to medal again are good. I'm sorry though, I don't think our chances for 3 slots at worlds are very good with Rachael on the team. They should have picked Mirai for the 2nd slot. Maybe if Alissa retires in a year and Ashley has an "awakening" she has a chance. But I view Ashley's passion as rather hollow, similar to Sasha's, whereas Alissa's passion is understated but legit. That kind of attitude always seems to win out when it counts. As far as Ashley's conditioning, she appeared to be in great shape and hasn't succumbed to "growth" like many skaters.

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    I love Ashley, so I hope she stays in. i think she does have true passion for skating. IF Alissa retires (which I expect) perhaps Ashley could go to the skate whisperers Jason and Yuka?

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    I think she still has a chance. She had the flu at nationals this year, and it looked like she was mouth breathing in the long program, a sign she was still maybe suffering from it by then. She also lost out on that olympic spot last year because she didn't do a good SP, even though the long program was kind of the skate of her life. She needs to be healthy and do a good short program if she wants to have a chance, but I think if she does that, she is still in the mix. Rachael and Alissa may not even stay all the way until 2014. Rachael might decide to stop skating to go to school and people didn't think Alissa would stay even this long.

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    I hope so. I like Ashley and have not yet given up hope that she will conquer her SP demons and correct her bad jump habits.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Agnes and Gao finished above her at Nationals this year so havent they technically already surpassed her?
    I think so. Also Gao is not a headcase, whereas Agnes is still a question mark. But they both are more solid in the jump department than Ashley and the PCS will come in time. Christina has been struggling a little this year due to a 3-4 inch growthspurt, but is still holding her own out there and hasn't lost any of her jumps. I assume next season she will only get better, same for Agnes who seems to have finally overcome the senior debut nerves. And it's not just those two she has to worry about, Yasmin and Vanessa are threats too. I don't know if either girls' jump technique will survive puberty, but for now, they are looking good for the future. Add in Hicks, Dinh, and Kulgeyko to the mix and things are not looking very good for Ashley.

    That being said I do think there's a chance for her, the window is just very narrow. So let's say Rachael and Alissa both compete next season but then retire afterwards, in 2013 it would mean that likely Mirai, Agnes and Christina would be the frontrunners going into nationals, and if Ashley is still going strong, she at least have a shot at winning or coming in 2nd, presuming the younger ladies aren't quite soup yet. I don't know though.

  19. #19

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    I hope so, but I'm not counting on it. I feel like she gets lowballed a little on PCS and I'm not sure what's going to have to do to change that because her short program had more choreography and transitions than anyone else.

    I think Hicks is going to make a splash in seniors pretty soon and when you add her to the likes of Nagasu, Lam, Gao, and Zawadski, it doesn't look great for Ashley. I don't know where she is in regards to the puberty monster, but if she's past it, I think she's going to start kicking ass and taking names pretty soon.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

  20. #20
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    Yes, she's still technically a teenager [19], so age-wise she still has time.

    I really like some of the things that Priscilla Hill has done for her, but I think she needs a coach right now that would 'rein her in' a little more mentally, then change program tactics, strip out some extraneous movements in her programs and concentrate on better quality out of her actual jumps.

    Transitions are wonderful and I'm glad Ashley is ambitious with them, but they need to be more seamlessly integrated into the program. Maybe Ashley can't quite handle all of that.

    I DON'T want Ashley to leave the sport! She has a lot to offer and can get there - she has the whole array of jumps, decent speed, decent spiral, decent spinner. Most of all she doesn't have the 'fear' that plagues the skating of someone like Mirai and Alissa (until recently). She attacks! I love it and count her as one of my faves

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