Downton Abbey--Upstairs/Downstairs, Stiff Upper Lips, and Tea!

[Coco]

plus she was anxious about getting Mary's "situation" settled.

[danceronice]

plus she was anxious about getting Mary's "situation" settled.

The point is less which wedding should come first (though let's face it, Matthew is the heir to Downton and the war hero; Mary at this point is damaged goods and Cora KNOWS that, and marrying down to someone no one really likes-really, as far as marrying a decent man goes Sibyl's done better, and they'd do better to pin their hopes on Edith for a socially-acceptable match now) than her writing off "in a wheelchair and until recently thought crippled for life*" as "lame", like he had a club foot or something. It's also pretty clear that Robert has started to regard Matthew as a surrogate son in a more emotional sense and genuinely feels like he's one of the family. Cora basically comes off sounding like a socialite airhead again, ie the person that Robert had to learn to love, with effort, when they first married. Though obviously he's gotten an emotional shake-up with Cora nearly dying of the flu.

*The "miracle recovery" there actually worked for me, as the modern-medicine explanation would have been more likely that he had a swelling injury pushing on the spine, and eventually (this is taking place over months per episode, after all) when the swelling goes down, the spinal cord isn't severed, meaning things DO work again. NOW we wouldn't miss that, then....

[pollyanna]

Dear Daisy - if you feel uncomfortable accepting the war widow pension, please just turn it over to William's father. I'm sure it would come in handy as he ages and he no longer has William there to help.

The end.

[Artemis@BC]

Bates: SERIOUSLY YOU ARE TOO DUMB TO LIVE. (Or maybe not. Hello, spousal privilege! Anna now can't testify against him.)

I don't think so. Spousal priviledge only applies to communication during marriage, and the incident happened before Bates & Anna were married. Anna could, I believe, still be compelled to testify about the scratch on Bates' face when he returned.

But regardless, I don't think Bates is a. guilty or b. that calculating. It just doesn't fit. I agree, though, that he is c. really stupid about all this.

The timeline is pretty wacky, though. We were, what, mid-1918 when the former Mrs. Bates died, and now it's April 1919 and they're arresting him? Are we really to believe that this presumed suicide was left open all that time? And the letter with the incriminating evidence just arrived?

[vesperholly]

The timeline is pretty wacky, though. We were, what, mid-1918 when the former Mrs. Bates died, and now it's April 1919 and they're arresting him? Are we really to believe that this presumed suicide was left open all that time? And the letter with the incriminating evidence just arrived?

And that Mary and Matthew have been dancing around their feelings for SEVEN YEARS? I don't mind timeline jumps (Alias skipped 2 years between season 2 and 3) as long as they're handled sensibly.

[danceronice]

And that Mary and Matthew have been dancing around their feelings for SEVEN YEARS? I don't mind timeline jumps (Alias skipped 2 years between season 2 and 3) as long as they're handled sensibly.

Um...World War I? They weren't last-minute additions like the Americans. They were kind of stuck with either "plod through the entire flippin' war" or skip quite a bit.

[danceronice]

I don't think so. Spousal priviledge only applies to communication during marriage, and the incident happened before Bates & Anna were married. Anna could, I believe, still be compelled to testify about the scratch on Bates' face when he returned.

But regardless, I don't think Bates is a. guilty or b. that calculating. It just doesn't fit. I agree, though, that he is c. really stupid about all this.

US law or UK law ca. 1919? Nowdays, he'd only have to worry about a prison sentence and probably they couldn't make it stick...THEN, he's looking at death by hanging.

In any case, I think they won't force Anna to testify--but remember O'Brien eavesdropping? She heard a bad part of the conversation and she might even volunteer the information.

[jlai]

Bates' problems puzzled me. I mean, this man has proof of his wife's infidelity and still break free? I mean, he has to spend every penny he has to keep Vera quiet about something that's really not his problem (ie Mary)? I mean, really?

Idiot is your name.

[danceronice]

Bates' problems puzzled me. I mean, this man has proof of his wife's infidelity and still break free? I mean, he has to spend every penny he has to keep Vera quiet about something that's really not his problem (ie Mary)? I mean, really?

Idiot is your name.

Well, the latter part--I understand THAT. Letting Vera tell the world about Mary's issue is basically flipping the bird to the Earl, who has REALLY gone to bat for Bates many times, up to employing him when no one else would (not only a cripple but a convicted thief, even if we know he was covering for Vera again.) Knowingly throwing the whole family under the bus to make his divorce smooth would be selfish asshattery on a par with Thomas's sociopathy.

OTOH, I'm not clear why Vera was able to block what should have been a pretty one-sided divorce, unless SHE had "evidence" some kind that Bates and Anna were shacking up or some other form of cruelty, and that's not what it sounded like. More a legal technicality.

[aliceanne]

is ethel's plan to have someone from downton sneak over with leftovers every wk for the next 16 yrs?

Yup. I have an adult sibling who is exactly like that.

[aliceanne]

I think there is more to come of Lord G almost affair with the maid. She truly seemed to be in love with Lord G. Now how could that happen with a couple of stolen kisses, does not make sense to me. Also I don't believe that she is a war widow. She never talks about her husband.

Makes sense to me.

[manleywoman]

Well, the latter part--I understand THAT. Letting Vera tell the world about Mary's issue is basically flipping the bird to the Earl, who has REALLY gone to bat for Bates many times, up to employing him when no one else would (not only a cripple but a convicted thief, even if we know he was covering for Vera again.)

Don't forget Vera said she was threatening to slander Anna too, since the rumor she (correctly) heard involved Anna carrying the body out.

So Bates was going to bat for both Lord Grantham and Anna.

I guess it's just me, but I don't mind the Bates story line at all. I'm more annoyed with the random inclusion of Jane and Ethel.

[zaphyre14]

I'm seeing Jane, Ethel and Anna as the Downstairs version of Mary, Edith and Sybil. Kind of a compare and contrast exercise on the roles of women of the times.

If I'm annoyed with anyone it's Matthew who seems to me a very wishy-washy sort of hero. and the Peter/Patrick storyline seemed very abrupt.

But otherwise I'm enjoying the saga, soapsuds and all.

[aliceanne]

Lavinia has a vague storyline as well. Matthew obviously got involved with her for SOME reason, but it's not clear what or how. He thought enough of her to keep her picture with him while he was at war, and he asked for her right away when he was recovering from his wounds, but they don't seem to interact much.

She isn't doing much to move along the Matthew/Mary or Richard/Mary stories either. Not sure why she is there.

[nubka]

Don't forget Vera said she was threatening to slander Anna too, since the rumor she (correctly) heard involved Anna carrying the body out.

So Bates was going to bat for both Lord Grantham and Anna.

I guess it's just me, but I don't mind the Bates story line at all. I'm more annoyed with the random inclusion of Jane and Ethel.

It's just one serious mess after another for that poor man. Why can't he just have a few normal problems, like dandruff, or ring around the collar?

Yes, Ethel is a bore...

[danceronice]

I'm seeing Jane, Ethel and Anna as the Downstairs version of Mary, Edith and Sybil. Kind of a compare and contrast exercise on the roles of women of the times.

I would think the parallel's more with Jane (weakest link-Edith and older/married men?), Anna (Mary and her marriage problems), and Gwen (Sibyl-ambitions outside her station), while Ethel contrasts more with Gwen--they both want modern upward moblity, but Ethel wants it handed to her, Gwen set reasonable goals.

If I'm annoyed with anyone it's Matthew who seems to me a very wishy-washy sort of hero. and the Peter/Patrick storyline seemed very abrupt.

I'm really, really hoping that the Patrick storyline is just put off, not dead-ended. As for Matthew, I get he's been traumatized by the war, but the bipolar behavior is annoying as heck. I mean, slow-dancing with Mary and kissing her in front of your fiance is sorta okay but now said fiance is dead, and actually DIED GIVING YOU HER BLESSING and now you're guilt-ridden and angsting? Lavinia should come back from the dead and kick his @$$. Or beat him with the Clue Bat for a while.

[nubka]

I'm really, really hoping that the Patrick storyline is just put off, not dead-ended.

I hope Patrick comes back, too. A very interesting storyline that was far too short.

[Reuven]

OTOH, I'm not clear why Vera was able to block what should have been a pretty one-sided divorce, unless SHE had "evidence" some kind that Bates and Anna were shacking up or some other form of cruelty, and that's not what it sounded like. More a legal technicality.

I think he had given her large amounts of money if she agreed to the divorce, which appears to negate the agreement. She had informed the Court of that fact.

[PRlady]

I just watched the last two episodes back-to-back and of course came to see what y'all think.

I think Matthew is not holding up as a romantic hero, that's what I think. Too much angst and not enough willpower one way or another. Which annoys me because I like complicated romances between complicated people, and god knows Mary is a difficult but interesting lady.

And I sort of liked Jane the maid. She seemed kind and genuinely attached to his lordship, and it was sad to see them do the unquestionably right thing.

The whole burn-victim-missing-heir was too weird for DA, that was a total soap opera excursion and I hope the dude doesn't come back.

And finally, Sybil and Branson are going to have the best marriage of anyone's, sez I. Even when he gets tangled up with the Irish revolutionaries. Those two have what it takes.

[Artemis@BC]

The whole burn-victim-missing-heir was too weird for DA, that was a total soap opera excursion and I hope the dude doesn't come back.

My first thought in the amnesia-back-from-the-dead plot point was "Aha, they've now officially dropped all pretense that they're not a soap opera."

And finally, Sybil and Branson are going to have the best marriage of anyone's, sez I. Even when he gets tangled up with the Irish revolutionaries. Those two have what it takes.

Alas, I think their happiness will be short-lived. I don't see the series "showing" their life in Ireland, and I also don't see them writing out one of the sisters (unless Jessica Brown Findlay wants to leave the show). So I suspect they'll kill Branson off somehow in the 1919-21 guerilla war.