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  1. #421

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalle View Post
    I was really angry about Daisy being pressured to marry William - I don't like seeing someone coerced to go against their conscience, even if I understand the logic those individuals were following. I think my irritation was influenced heavily by the fact that the reason the entire situation existed in the FIRST place was Daisy being pressured earlier to let William think she liked him more than she did and that she was his "sweetheart" on the now obviously faulty logic that "what harm could it do?" Well, this is the harm. That little white lie spiraled into a very unfair situation.
    Oh, definitely. Mrs. Pattmore should be shot for more or less forcing Daisy into that situation. I was terrified that after she said "I Do", William was going to make a miraculous recovery and then poor Daisy would be stuck. Pressuring someone to marry is the same no matter what, even if he is going to die soon...you still have the living party to think about and it's clear that this whole situation is really going to affect Daisy for a long time.

    It makes me sad because Daisy/William was a favorite of mine in the first season, and I had hoped that it would have a legitimate growth in the second. And it might have, if everyone had let Daisy take things at her own pace. But the second she was pressured into doing something she didn't want to, forget it. She was never going to love William that way, no matter how awesome he was.

  2. #422

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    Ugh, why is Daisy being such a witch? Poor William is dying and and she won't agree to marry him on his deathbed? It's not as if she would have to be wed to him for the rest of her life. Maybe she will change her mind.

    eta:
    Thank goodness, she did go through with it.
    Most people "downstairs" were still quite religious at the time. I can easily understand Daisy not wanting to lie to a minister or have the feeling she was being dishonest before God. I think that subtext was there. While I am :wurobbed he died, I did not appreciate how he basically amd the kitchen staff manipulated her into being his sweetheart from the beginning. You can't manufacture love. She was quite justified--and right--to initially refuse. I would have.
    "The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play." –Olympic Charter

  3. #423
    Not 'Boxxy'!
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    Shirley MacLaine is joining the cast, I love her:

    http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/shir...medium=twitter

  4. #424

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    Quote Originally Posted by soxxy View Post
    Shirley MacLaine is joining the cast, I love her:

    http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/shir...medium=twitter

    Spoiler


  5. #425

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    I love the thought of epic battles between Maggie Smith and Shirley MacLaine. Team Maggie right here!!
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post
    Most people "downstairs" were still quite religious at the time. I can easily understand Daisy not wanting to lie to a minister or have the feeling she was being dishonest before God. I think that subtext was there. While I am :wurobbed he died, I did not appreciate how he basically amd the kitchen staff manipulated her into being his sweetheart from the beginning. You can't manufacture love. She was quite justified--and right--to initially refuse. I would have.
    Thanks Martryeshka.

    Your explanation does make sense and I admit I was caught up in the fact that William was dying and it would have been cruel to tell him the truth on his deathbed.

    Honestly, I think he should have been set straight before he went off to war in the first place; that would have prevented Daisy from being pressured to become a widow. ITA that the rest of the kitchen staff shouldn't have encouraged William before he left but since Daisy waited to finally speak up (she was most likely afraid of the reaction) I'm glad she did go through with it.

    Maggie Smith is making me . I was impressed that Lady Grantham used her influence to get William home so that he could die with his family around.

  7. #427
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    I was loving the Dowager in last night's episode too -- even above and beyond Maggie Smith's usual fabulousness. The way she fought for William, esp. with the vicar ("Need I remind you that your living is in my son's gift" -- very Jane Austen!), and then her attendance at the wedding, was so sweet. Though I did wonder if there's a bit more we don't know about. When she fought earlier to keep both William and Molesly out of the war, it seemed as though it was part paternalism and part not wanting to disrupt the households. This time ... part of me thinks she was just caught up in the spirit of "we all do what we can to help in wartime" ... but I'm also wondering if there's something else.

    The Ethel storyline is just boring. The only reason I can think for them writing it is that they wanted to do something with the maid-has-baby-out-of-wedlock storyline that seems to be a requirement for that era -- and it wouldn't have worked Anna or Gwen. However the one upside of that storyline is that it showed, again, how completely wonderful Mrs Hughes is.

  8. #428
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    I've read spoilers for the whole season, and I will only say that Ethel's storyline isn't going away, but IMHO will continue to be boring based on what I read. I am less enthused when they have characters/plots functioning outside of the house on a regular basis. I prefer to stay nestled in the world that is Downton Abbey.

  9. #429
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    i had kind of forgotten that cora is american, i dont want her brash american mother to visit.

    while the whole daisy/william storyline was a lot of WTF (what does he see in her, what is mrs patmore thinking no matter how well intentioned, fake wedding really), william was right that being his war widow with a small pension might be her only opportunity in life.

    is ethel keeping this baby because she thinks black mustache might pay up eventually? even if she wants it, it doesnt seem to be possible to support herself and that baby without help. she's dragging herself down and me with her.
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    I was loving the Dowager in last night's episode too -- even above and beyond Maggie Smith's usual fabulousness. The way she fought for William, esp. with the vicar ("Need I remind you that your living is in my son's gift" -- very Jane Austen!), and then her attendance at the wedding, was so sweet. Though I did wonder if there's a bit more we don't know about. When she fought earlier to keep both William and Molesly out of the war, it seemed as though it was part paternalism and part not wanting to disrupt the households. This time ... part of me thinks she was just caught up in the spirit of "we all do what we can to help in wartime" ... but I'm also wondering if there's something else.
    I think it's partially she's old-school aristocracy and looking out for their people is what they do-at least the good ones. (See Fitzwilliam Darcy a hundred years earlier and how the people around Pemberly, like Elizabeth's aunt, thought of him.) It's not ALL about oppressing the masses. And I think some of it was she's old enough she's seen wars before, she KNOWS they aren't a cakewalk, while the 'young folks' really have no idea what's coming. Combine all that with her being an inveterate busybody and she's going to pull strings.

    Which is awesome because we get scenes like the vicar learning that you do not mess with Dame Maggie Smith. She will pwn you. Without even raising her voice.

    The Ethel storyline is just boring. The only reason I can think for them writing it is that they wanted to do something with the maid-has-baby-out-of-wedlock storyline that seems to be a requirement for that era -- and it wouldn't have worked Anna or Gwen. However the one upside of that storyline is that it showed, again, how completely wonderful Mrs Hughes is.
    I also read the spoilers on Ethel. Yeah, I'm not seeing it getting any more exciting.

    And you KNOW Mrs. Bates is evil. Even Thomas is like "You shouldn't have written her" and O'Brien agrees. As TV Tropes puts it, Even Evil Has Standards.

    Spoiler


  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis@BC View Post
    I was loving the Dowager in last night's episode too -- even above and beyond Maggie Smith's usual fabulousness. The way she fought for William, esp. with the vicar ("Need I remind you that your living is in my son's gift" -- very Jane Austen!), and then her attendance at the wedding, was so sweet. Though I did wonder if there's a bit more we don't know about. When she fought earlier to keep both William and Molesly out of the war, it seemed as though it was part paternalism and part not wanting to disrupt the households. This time ... part of me thinks she was just caught up in the spirit of "we all do what we can to help in wartime" ... but I'm also wondering if there's something else...
    Wasn't William an only child? I seem to recall his explaining to Daisy that was why his father didn't want him to enlist in the army. This may have been why the Dowager and the Earl wanted to keep him out of combat. I wonder if his type of injury actually happened during World War I? The shrapnel from the shell didn't get him...he didn't have a mark on him. It was the shock waves from the explosion that severely damaged his lungs. I had assumed that this type of injury was a more recent phenomenon but what do I know.
    Last edited by Civic; 01-31-2012 at 12:17 AM.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    I wonder if his type of injury actually happened during World War I? The shrapnel from the shell didn't get him...he didn't have a mark on him. It was the shock waves from the explosion that severely damaged his lungs. I had assumed that this type of injury was a more recent phenomenon but what do I know.
    Well, as a frequent watcher of Mythbusters , I know the shockwave is often the deadliest part of an explosion. Even the relatively less energetic explosions of that era.

    It made it extra poignant, though -- the fact that he looked fine, but was still dying.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    ...And you KNOW Mrs. Bates is evil. Even Thomas is like "You shouldn't have written her" and O'Brien agrees...
    It would be nice if the writers gave us more insight into Vera Bates' motives. We can see how much she hates her husband but they haven't told us why. I mean the man went to prison to protect her, what else does she want from him? Why did she still that regimental silver in the first place?
    Last edited by Civic; 01-31-2012 at 01:07 AM.

  14. #434

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    I loved the Dowager on the phone - that was an epic scene.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  15. #435

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    Speaking of Gwen...am I the only one who wanted to see she and Branson get together? I think she would be a far better match for him than Lady Sybil.
    Definitely not. I even thought someone like Anna -if she weren't too busy mooning over Bates- would have been better for him. I really like Rose Leslie who played her and I hope they manage to show what happened to Gwen next season. I know the actress will be busy with Game of Thrones ( Ygritte!), but hopefully they can work something out.

  16. #436
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    Sniff. I just watched it on Tivo. It didn't do my already-sore nose and eyes any good.

    I haven't been spoiled so I'm dying to know if Matthew is going to miraculously recover his ability to....make an heir....before the end of the season. Of course my interest is only dynastic....
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  17. #437
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    Yeah, this was basically the saddest episode ever.

    The silver lining I suppose is that it was a great showcase for my two favourite characters - Mary and Violet. I really hope Michelle Dockery gets some awards attention for this season.

  18. #438

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post

    I haven't been spoiled so I'm dying to know if Matthew is going to miraculously recover his ability to....make an heir....before the end of the season. Of course my interest is only dynastic....

    LOL, of course your interest is only dynastic
    'Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.'--John Wayne

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    It would be nice if the writers gave us more insight into Vera Bates' motives. We can see how much she hates her husband but they haven't told us why. I mean the man went to prison to protect her, what else does she want from him? Why did she still that regimental silver in the first place?
    I got the feeling that they keep bring back Vera when the writers run out of plots or something.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by my little pony View Post
    that is the only time a wedding ever made me cry
    Are you sure you don't just have a cold? (I thought that was one of the best lines of the night.)

    Agree that this ep was a total tear jerker. Either that or we're turning into saps.

    There's something about Mrs. Bates that reminds me of Margaret Hamilton in the Wizard of Oz. "I'll get you yet, my pretty."
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

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