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  1. #361
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    Downton Abbey in the press:

    NY Times (DA parties )

    The New Yorker (funny rant about Laura Linney)
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peaches LaTour View Post
    Me too! Lady Edith is my favorite character and I am glad that she is finally getting some respect in Season 2. I hope she ends up with a loving husband and that nasty-ass Mary ends up getting what she, IMO, deserves: an unhappy marriage and no inheritance.
    I don't actually dislike Lady Mary. She is a fundamentally decent person; her kindness to Lavinia and her decision to take the high road show this. At the same time, I do find her insufferable at times. First off, she IS very spoiled. Second, she doesn't know what she wants.

    She was very snobbish to Matthew when he and his mother first arrived at Downton Abbey. I understand that she felt pressured and none to happy about the position her family was putting her in. However, someone with her supposed "good breeding" should know better than to be rude to a guest in her home. As she got to know Matthew better she began to appreciate his good qualities but then her snobbishness kicked in again and she decided that a mere lawyer wasn't good enough for her being that she's an earl's daughter.

    As I wrote above, Mary doesn't know what she wants. So she flits from Matthew, to that Duke who was more interested in her inheritance than her, to that Viscount, then to Sir Richard Carlisle. She even flirted with Strallan, though more to make her sister jealous than out of any genuine interest. If she isn't careful she'll let her chances to make a good marriage slip by because she can't make up her mind.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post

    She was very snobbish to Matthew when he and his mother first arrived at Downton Abbey. I understand that she felt pressured and none to happy about the position her family was putting her in. However, someone with her supposed "good breeding" should know better than to be rude to a guest in her home. As she got to know Matthew better she began to appreciate his good qualities but then her snobbishness kicked in again and she decided that a mere lawyer wasn't good enough for her being that she's an earl's daughter.
    Well, by the standards of the day, if Matthew doesn't inherit it really is a horrific mismatch. Though at this point Sir Richard's really worse--marrying the middle class is one thing, marrying the crass nouveau-riche scandal-monger? At this point, inheritance aside, Matthew could at least claim honorable officer with combat experience for status.

    At this point, the one who really needs to get over herself is Cora where Matthew's mother is concerned. Is she threatened by her being medically trained and more assertive? Not to mention she's approaching too dumb to live status where O'Brien is concerned...

  4. #364

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Well, by the standards of the day, if Matthew doesn't inherit it really is a horrific mismatch. Though at this point Sir Richard's really worse--marrying the middle class is one thing, marrying the crass nouveau-riche scandal-monger? At this point, inheritance aside, Matthew could at least claim honorable officer with combat experience for status.

    At this point, the one who really needs to get over herself is Cora where Matthew's mother is concerned. Is she threatened by her being medically trained and more assertive? Not to mention she's approaching too dumb to live status where O'Brien is concerned...
    Assertiveness is one thing, and Matthew's mother means well, but she just steamrolls over everyone/thing in her path.
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    A very good friend of mine got me Season 1 as a Christmas present because he loved it so much....I have yet to watch it - maybe I will start this weekend.

  6. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    Assertiveness is one thing, and Matthew's mother means well, but she just steamrolls over everyone/thing in her path.
    That's my opinion as well. Even if I invited them into my home, if someone came into my house, took over a number of my rooms, commandeered my family AND staff and I had no say in absolutely anything that was going on, I'd be all up in arms, too.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdycool View Post
    That's my opinion as well. Even if I invited them into my home, if someone came into my house, took over a number of my rooms, commandeered my family AND staff and I had no say in absolutely anything that was going on, I'd be all up in arms, too.
    It's a WAR. They were free to say no to the Major (who had final say), and look like unpatrioic, unsupportive jerk aristocrats in the process. Cora's in no way qualified to run a county-fair chicken-cleaning contest, never mind a convalesent home for severely wounded and shell-shocked soldiers, so why SHOULD she be in charge? Plus, as a part of why she said yes appeared to be purely to spite the Dowager and remind her who was running the show now, she asked for it.

  8. #368

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    It's a WAR. They were free to say no to the Major (who had final say), and look like unpatrioic, unsupportive jerk aristocrats in the process. Cora's in no way qualified to run a county-fair chicken-cleaning contest, never mind a convalesent home for severely wounded and shell-shocked soldiers, so why SHOULD she be in charge? Plus, as a part of why she said yes appeared to be purely to spite the Dowager and remind her who was running the show now, she asked for it.
    Nobody said anything about Cora running everything. Matthew's mother sould at least give the family a head's up on certain things before just plowing ahead with them.
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Well, by the standards of the day, if Matthew doesn't inherit it really is a horrific mismatch. Though at this point Sir Richard's really worse--marrying the middle class is one thing, marrying the crass nouveau-riche scandal-monger? At this point, inheritance aside, Matthew could at least claim honorable officer with combat experience for status...
    Yeah, I get the mismatch part. However, Mary needs to decide if she wants to do what social mores dictate or if she wants to be happy. Both may not come in the same package. As for Sir Richard, yep he's a piece of work. Mary needs to be careful with him because, unlike her other suitors, he's not going to dance to her tune.

  10. #370

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    Thanks for clarifying this. If Mary was in love with Matthew, why didn't she accept his proposal when he first asked her to marry him?
    This is from a couple of days ago, but I think the biggest reason she didn't accept him right away was because she wanted to tell him about him about the Pamuk thing first (which, if you remember, her mother and grandmother both thought was a terrible idea). I always assumed the reason she stayed behind in London after her family went back to Downton was because she was trying to put off telling him the truth. It was after that that they found out about the pregnancy, which of course added another complication to the matter.

    Also, just to add to the conversation from the last few days, I'll just say that Mary is my favourite character, but I seem to have a thing for polarizing female characters - Mary here, Rachel from Glee, Deb from Dexter. I just think, particularly in the first season, she's the most complex, fascinating character on the show. I don't mind that she's not always likeable - actually, that's part of the reason I like her so much. For example, someone like Sybil is great and all, but a little too perfect to really grab me as a character.

    Also, as had been said before, Michelle Dockery is so, so great in the role. Along with Maggie Smith (of course) she's the highlight of a really terrific cast for me.


    Also, I couldn't resist and went ahead and watched Season 2 online and

    Spoiler


  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    Yeah, I get the mismatch part. However, Mary needs to decide if she wants to do what social mores dictate or if she wants to be happy. Both may not come in the same package. As for Sir Richard, yep he's a piece of work. Mary needs to be careful with him because, unlike her other suitors, he's not going to dance to her tune.
    Social mores, and substantially different financial circumstances. Movies like to make it seem like happiness trumps radical differences in upbringing, but it really, really doesn't as a rule (look at the sheer amount of training Kate Middleton got.) If Matthew really were just a lawyer, it's not likely Mary is going to really be capable of dealing with being a middle-class wife. (Is it likely Sibyl is the only daughter who has no idea how to fill a tea kettle or bake a cake? Edith had likely never done five minutes of manual labor before the farm.) Though of course at this point, there's no question he's not going to be Lord Grantham some day now Cora's really past childbearing, assuming he lives through the war, of course.

    Not saying anything re Sir Richard, I read the spoilers....

  12. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    The New Yorker (funny rant about Laura Linney)
    Hear, hear! I hate her intros. I've hated them since her absolutely wretched intro to Little Dorrit.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshleyN View Post
    Also, I couldn't resist and went ahead and watched Season 2 online and

    Spoiler

    ‎"You emerge victorious from the maze you've been travelling in." Oct 21,2012- Best Fortune Cookie Ever!

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    What the hell is Thomas's PROBLEM.

    I guess I'm glad he's around. Everyone else is being a bit too saintly.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    What the hell is Thomas's PROBLEM.

    I guess I'm glad he's around. Everyone else is being a bit too saintly.
    Apparently O'Brien thinks he's not evil enough...what is that woman's PROBLEM?

    Though apparently there's a Comic Relief (UK) skit where the actors poke fun at how their characters are basically evil for no real discernible reason--like he's introduced as "Thomas, the evil footman" and she says of course she's evil, her hair looks like knitting.

    Side note: Anyone else find it mildly amusing that the first shot you see every episode at the start of the credits sequence is...Isis the Labrador Retriever's butt? I mean, nothing says "costume drama" to me like a yellow lab's backside... (Yes, it's cute, all lab butts are cute, but...)

  16. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    Yeah, I get the mismatch part. However, Mary needs to decide if she wants to do what social mores dictate or if she wants to be happy. Both may not come in the same package. As for Sir Richard, yep he's a piece of work. Mary needs to be careful with him because, unlike her other suitors, he's not going to dance to her tune.
    Mary's a bit of a Scarlett O'Hara. She knows who she is (she likes her creature comforts and status) and she can see that the world around her is changing and will likely do so even more when the war is over. In that sense Sir Richard is a soulmate - he's not about to let sentiment stand in the way of his survival.

    I think her big reservation with Matthew is that she senses he would sacrifice money and status for sentiment faster than she would.

  17. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Mary's a bit of a Scarlett O'Hara. She knows who she is (she likes her creature comforts and status) and she can see that the world around her is changing and will likely do so even more when the war is over. In that sense Sir Richard is a soulmate - he's not about to let sentiment stand in the way of his survival.
    IMO calling Sir Richard Mary's "soulmate" is really a stretch -- even given the qualification. If Mary really had any feelings for him, she would have accepted his proposal by now.
    I think her big reservation with Matthew is that she senses he would sacrifice money and status for sentiment faster than she would.
    It's clear that Matthew is who she loves (and I think that Matthew still deeply cares for Mary), but Lavinia is preventing the possibility of that relationship being renewed. (My thought is that Lavinia is the most likely character to succumb to the influenza pandemic that is looming in the near future. That would be a "convenient" albeit obvious plot device to give Matthew and honorable way out of his engagement.)

  18. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    IMO calling Sir Richard Mary's "soulmate" is really a stretch -- even given the qualification. If Mary really had any feelings for him, she would have accepted his proposal by now. It's clear that Matthew is who she loves (and I think that Matthew still deeply cares for Mary), but Lavinia is preventing the possibility of that relationship being renewed. (My thought is that Lavinia is the most likely character to succumb to the influenza pandemic that is looming in the near future. That would be a "convenient" albeit obvious plot device to give Matthew and honorable way out of his engagement.)
    I thought Mary did accept his proposal in the last episode. Sir Richard wrote to her father asking his consent, and she told her father she wanted to accept his proposal.

    I don't see her marrying Matthew, 1st for plot reasons (the story would be over) and 2nd although they are attracted to each other, they don't have that much in common. I don't see Matthew hanging around the manor fussing with his valet and worrying about what to wear for dinner. She's too high maintenance for him.

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    Plus, I don't see Matthew being OK with his spouse using blackmail to forward their career the way Mary is OK with Sir Richard blackmailing Lavinia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I thought Mary did accept his proposal in the last episode. Sir Richard wrote to her father asking his consent, and she told her father she wanted to accept his proposal.
    No, Mary hasn't accepted Sir Richard's proposal yet -- she told her father that she had made a decision that she would and that was when her father asked her if she was sure about this and if she was, that she should write to Matthew to tell him so. So, Mary has not actually accepted Sir Richard's proposal yet -- he doesn't even know as much about her intentions as Matthew does at this point.
    I don't see her marrying Matthew, 1st for plot reasons (the story would be over) and 2nd although they are attracted to each other, they don't have that much in common.
    First, I don't agree that the "story would be over" if Mary and Matthew were to marry. The fact that they might have serious differences of opinion about all manner of things would/could be a continuation of their storyline, despite their marrying. And theirs is not the only storyline in Downton Abbey.
    I don't see Matthew hanging around the manor fussing with his valet and worrying about what to wear for dinner. She's too high maintenance for him.
    I think that many things will change after the war (after all, there will be the financial crash of 1929 looming), so that the potential for "Matthew hanging around the manor fussing with his valet and worrying what to wear for dinner" would be remote. Society as a whole is not at all the same post-war -- lots and lots of changes all around, both for the gentry and those they employed.

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