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  1. #341

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    Well done, Edith and Mary!

    Branson is a pain.
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  2. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    Uh, Branson wasn't the first idealist to believe in the revolution, he had a lot of company. And things looked so bad from a lot of perspectives back then I don't blame them for hoping. From an Irish perspective he was pretty justified in dumping the crud on the general's head, at the very least, and from a proletarian perspective, why the hell should he or anyone else accept the class system as ordained and unbreakable?

    (As for Mary and Edith, I've sympathized with Mary all along. But I had dinner with a friend who's a middle child of three daughters and she took Edith's side. I'm the older of two girls. How much of our sympathies are engendered by birth order? )
    I agree on all accounts. My Mom is the middle child, and I know that she's often felt like a "forgotten child, neither here nor there", so I sort of "get" Edith's bitterness, though both Mary and Edith behaved singularly selfish and stupid towards each other.
    And I very much agree about the revolutionary sympathies, especially from an Irish working class man! Lots of smart, educated and sensitive people believed in Russian revolution in the very early years, only to see horrors instead of social justice.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    I haven't been an Edith fan, and I was pissed at her for encouraging the advances of a married man, worse yet, a working class man near her father's estate. But I was glad to see her find a worthwhile occupation in this episode and apparently she's good at it. I still don't like her.

    I was very impressed with how Mary handled the Lavinia information and put her interfering Aunt Rosamund in her place.
    I think the bottom line with Mary is that while likes and cares about Matthew, she isn't in love with him. Turning him down was a big gamble for her from a social status viewpoint. Matthew is the presumptive heir to Downton Abbey and the earldom that comes with. There isn't any guarantee that she'll be able to land a husband of equal or greater social status.

    I enjoyed watching Edith with the injured officers. She took time with them and showed them genuine kindness. You could see how surprised her family was when the general thanked her for her assistance to the injured men. Did Sybil actually train as a nurse? Also, where is Gwen now?

    As for Aunt Rosamunde...I missed a lot of the first series so I don't know her back story. Is she a widow? Does she have any children of her own?
    Last edited by Civic; 01-16-2012 at 05:12 AM.

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    I think the bottom line with Mary is that while likes and cares about Matthew, she isn't in love with him. Turning him down was a big gamble for her from a social status viewpoint. Matthew is the presumptive heir to Downton Abbey and the earldom that comes with. There isn't any guarantee that she'll be able to land a husband of equal or greater social status.
    She didn't turn him down though. Her mother was pregnant, and if the baby was a boy, Matthew would lose all rank and money. So she didn't answer his proposal until after her mother had a miscarriage. Then he rejected her b/c he thinks she was only after his money/rank.

    I think she was and is still in love with him. Last season, she told her aunt that she wants to marry him even if there's no title/money. Only to have her aunt discourage the idea. She also didn't want to hurt his feelings by accepting his proposal and then break it off if the baby was a boy, like her aunt and grandmother was suggesting. Mary is kind of stuck in between generations. She doesn't quite agree with all the restrictions on her, but she doesn't have Sybil's pluck to just out-right ignore them. I think she is very conflicted on exactly what she wants. She doesn't quite want to be the proper lady and do everything that's expect of her, which is why she didn't go after Matthew in the beginning. But she doesn't really know what else she can be or do.

    Mary seem to be softer this season, lot less cold, maybe b/c she's been broken down by the events in the first season. And I think she can sympathize with Lavinia b/c Mary also has a stain on her reputation. Also she held off on telling Matthew about her feelings b/c Lavinia was talking about how much she loves him. Then there's all those looks Matthew and Mary keep on sharing. It's pretty easy to make a case that there's still feelings there on both sides.

  5. #345

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    Did Sybil actually train as a nurse? Also, where is Gwen now?
    Yes, Sybil is a trained nurse. Gwen got hired as a receptionist for a telephone company.

  6. #346

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post

    As for Aunt Rosamunde...I missed a lot of the first series so I don't know her back story. Is she a widow? Does she have any children of her own?

    Rosamund is a widow with no children.
    'Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.'--John Wayne

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    Uh, Branson wasn't the first idealist to believe in the revolution, he had a lot of company. And things looked so bad from a lot of perspectives back then I don't blame them for hoping. From an Irish perspective he was pretty justified in dumping the crud on the general's head, at the very least, and from a proletarian perspective, why the hell should he or anyone else accept the class system as ordained and unbreakable?
    The Irish were a lot more entitled to complain than the Russians (who scuttled their own peaceful reform when revolutionaries assassinated Alexander, who supported reform), and frankly, given the track record of revolutions to that point (ie, the American was the only one up to then that did NOT end in a violent bloodbath slaughtering civilians) the class system did indeed seem to be doing an important job keeping violent mindless mobs from running amok. The Russian Revolution just demonstrated the anti-revolutionaries were right all along about the proletariat. And Branson's worst idea being throwing some muck on a general suggests he couldn't even handle the milder (ie MILITARY) type of the Irish movement that quite rightly targeted British military forces in Ireland, never mind the part that wound up terror-bombing civilian targets.

    As for Mary and Edith they BOTH seem to have grown up. Edith seems to be finding a role that doesn't involve bitter sulking about her lot, and Mary is a LOT sharper about filtering her aunt and her grandmother's advice. (Her aunt seriously needs a hobby other than meddling.)

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    The Irish were a lot more entitled to complain than the Russians (who scuttled their own peaceful reform when revolutionaries assassinated Alexander, who supported reform), and frankly, given the track record of revolutions to that point (ie, the American was the only one up to then that did NOT end in a violent bloodbath slaughtering civilians) the class system did indeed seem to be doing an important job keeping violent mindless mobs from running amok. The Russian Revolution just demonstrated the anti-revolutionaries were right all along about the proletariat.
    I must admit, it's been a while since I've read a post written in such a classic reactionary style. I doubt even the Granthams would have subscribed to that negative a description of the working classes, 100 years ago.

    Well, anyway....
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by moojja View Post
    She didn't turn him down though. Her mother was pregnant, and if the baby was a boy, Matthew would lose all rank and money. So she didn't answer his proposal until after her mother had a miscarriage. Then he rejected her b/c he thinks she was only after his money/rank.

    I think she was and is still in love with him. Last season, she told her aunt that she wants to marry him even if there's no title/money. Only to have her aunt discourage the idea...
    Thanks for clarifying this. If Mary was in love with Matthew, why didn't she accept his proposal when he first asked her to marry him?

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    Thanks for clarifying this. If Mary was in love with Matthew, why didn't she accept his proposal when he first asked her to marry him?
    B/c she is a product of her times. If her mother has a son, then Matthew will no longer be the heir. As a daughter of an earl, she can't marry a lawyer. And she didn't want to deceive him by accepting his proposal and then break it off if the baby was a boy, like her aunt and grandmother was suggesting. She was obviously conflicted and regretted her decision.

  11. #351
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    My biggest complaint with last night's episode was that it was too short!

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    That was my impression, too.
    Mine also.
    I can't believe that no one has mentioned that Downton Abby won a Golden Globe as best Drama Series!
    Last edited by Latte; 01-19-2012 at 02:24 AM.

  13. #353

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    The Irish were a lot more entitled to complain than the Russians (who scuttled their own peaceful reform when revolutionaries assassinated Alexander, who supported reform), and frankly, given the track record of revolutions to that point (ie, the American was the only one up to then that did NOT end in a violent bloodbath slaughtering civilians) the class system did indeed seem to be doing an important job keeping violent mindless mobs from running amok. The Russian Revolution just demonstrated the anti-revolutionaries were right all along about the proletariat. And Branson's worst idea being throwing some muck on a general suggests he couldn't even handle the milder (ie MILITARY) type of the Irish movement that quite rightly targeted British military forces in Ireland, never mind the part that wound up terror-bombing civilian targets.

    As for Mary and Edith they BOTH seem to have grown up. Edith seems to be finding a role that doesn't involve bitter sulking about her lot, and Mary is a

    LOT sharper about filtering her aunt and her grandmother's advice. (Her aunt

    seriously needs a hobby other than meddling.)

    I read that there was a lot of international meddling in the Russian Revolution.
    After WW1 many countries kept troops in Russia (Japan, US, major European powers) to "help out". However, even then everyone was aware of and interested in gaining control of the natural gas and oil in Siberia.

  14. #354

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    I love Rosamunde--I hope to be as eville and manipulative as she is someday.
    "The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play." –Olympic Charter

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post
    I love Rosamunde--I hope to be as eville and manipulative as she is someday.
    I want to be like her mother. The Dowager takes no prisoners. (But then she's Dame Maggie Smith.)

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latte View Post
    Mine also.
    I can't believe that no one has mentioned that Downton Abby won a Golden Globe as best Drama Series!
    For miniseries or television film, a category whose boundaries it is quickly pushing

  17. #357
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    I'm always rooting for Edith!
    Me too! Lady Edith is my favorite character and I am glad that she is finally getting some respect in Season 2. I hope she ends up with a loving husband and that nasty-ass Mary ends up getting what she, IMO, deserves: an unhappy marriage and no inheritance.

  18. #358
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    Mary was a grown-up spoiled brat and deserved it (being outed.) She was always rude to Edith, and treated her like crap...
    I am loving your posts!!!!!


    Does anybody else believe that Sir Richard is well aware of Mary's "turkish diplomat incident" and that he might try to blackmail Mary into becoming his wife? I hope so! I don't like Sir Richard so naturally I think he would be perfect for Mary.

    Can't wait for the showdown this weekend between Cora and Cousin Isobel.

  19. #359

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post
    I love Rosamunde--I hope to be as eville and manipulative as she is someday.
    It would be better if Rosamunde were smarter. Advising Mary to tell Matthew that Lavinia had a history with Sir Richard was a lose/lose proposition. It would only turn him against the Granthams, and certainly Mary. Even Mary could see that.

    Better to accuse people of stuff they know nothing about for real mayhem.

  20. #360

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peaches LaTour View Post
    Me too! Lady Edith is my favorite character and I am glad that she is finally getting some respect in Season 2. I hope she ends up with a loving husband and that nasty-ass Mary ends up getting what she, IMO, deserves: an unhappy marriage and no inheritance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peaches LaTour View Post
    Does anybody else believe that Sir Richard is well aware of Mary's "turkish diplomat incident" and that he might try to blackmail Mary into becoming his wife? I hope so! I don't like Sir Richard so naturally I think he would be perfect for Mary.

    Spoiler

    Last edited by skatingfan5; 01-19-2012 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Second thoughts about my snarkiness.

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