Downton Abbey--Upstairs/Downstairs, Stiff Upper Lips, and Tea!

[nubka]

No, he was a rich, middle-aged neighbor. Edith wanted to marry him but Mary told him that she was 'dreading a proposal that night from some old bore' so he never asked.

In Mary's defense, she was retaliating for her sister's outing the Pamuk episode.

Mary was a grown-up spoiled brat and deserved it (being outed.) She was always rude to Edith, and treated her like crap...

[skatingfan5]

Mary was a grown-up spoiled brat and deserved it (being outed.) She was always rude to Edith, and treated her like crap...

Edith's resentment/hatred of Mary knows no bounds and transcends any sense of family loyalty (and common sense, in that by smearing Mary's reputation, she is also damaging her own future chances). Carson, Anna, and Bates all have higher and much stronger ethical characters than Edith.

I know Mary definitely has grown up "spoiled" by her place in the family, but she certainly has miserable luck with men -- drowned at sea, a closeted homosexual, struck dead in her bed, and a cold-hearted "business" proposal from someone of dubious character. Matthew is probably much "safer" by not being affianced to Mary at least until the war is over.

[Reuven]

Thomas was at least kind to the suicidal soldier...

possibly because that soldier was becoming a love interest....?

[nubka]

Edith's resentment/hatred of Mary knows no bounds and transcends any sense of family loyalty (and common sense, in that by smearing Mary's reputation, she is also damaging her own future chances). Carson, Anna, and Bates all have higher and much stronger ethical characters than Edith.

I know Mary definitely has grown up "spoiled" by her place in the family, but she certainly has miserable luck with men -- drowned at sea, a closeted homosexual, struck dead in her bed, and a cold-hearted "business" proposal from someone of dubious character. Matthew is probably much "safer" by not being affianced to Mary at least until the war is over.

If Mary had treated Edith better, there probably wouldn't any be any resentment/hatred.

Poor Mary, not behaving herself, and ending up with a dead man in her bed. So naughty!

[nubka]

possibly because that soldier was becoming a love interest....?

That was my impression, too.

[skatingfan5]

If Mary had treated Edith better, there probably wouldn't any be any resentment/hatred.

I don't know that we can be sure of that, but those who want to think so, certainly can. As for me, I think that as the first-born (and pretty) daughter, Mary was in a very privileged place in her family and that as the 2nd "miss" for an heir and a less comely one, Edith has not been showered with as much attention/affection and has resented Mary since childhood. Of course, Mary could have behaved vilely to Edith even as a child, but resentment and jealousy can exist between siblings because of real or perceived preferential parental treatment, without there being any real ill-treatment by the sibling.

Poor Mary, not behaving herself, and ending up with a dead man in her bed. So naughty!

Well, she definitely "made her own bed" and now has had to lie in it for several years. Perhaps the writers have given her even more punishment -- probably not enough to satisfy those who detest her character, though.

[danceronice]

Well, she definitely "made her own bed" and now has had to lie in it for several years. Perhaps the writers have given her even more punishment -- probably not enough to satisfy those who detest her character, though.

And let's not forget, as far as Pamuk goes, she didn't really make that bed--he was absolutely right that once he was in her room, she was pretty much doomed no matter what she did--her 'honor' was already compromised.

While Edith might have viewed Mary's position as 'privileged,' but beside her string of REALLY rotten luck with fiances/love interests, there's also the pressure of being first-born and a girl. Once it was clear (or so they thought) there was no chance for a male, the pressure was mostly on the oldest daughter to marry well--ideally, marry the heir (a blood relative by definition) whether she really wants to or not. Then the first heir makes an unexpectedly poor travel decision (anyone else unable to help wondering if the Downton heirs ran into Lady Marjorie Bellamy on the Titanic?) Mary now has the issue of marry Matthew, if she can catch him, or find a suitable match (for example the Duke) that won't be a total comedown from losing Downton. And she has not only her parents but her grandmother not only breathing down her neck but giving advice of dubious helpfulness about it. From where Edith's sitting, Mary may look like the pretty favorite who gets everything, but Mary might see it differently.

[ChelleC]

I'm always rooting for Edith!

LOL! I'm the opposite, I absolutely cannot stand Edith. I don't think anything Mary has done to Edith justified her sending the letter to the Turkish embassy. Of course, the Pamuk situation coming out would have damaged Edith's own chances, and it would have served her right. I cheered when Mary told Strallan Edith was dreading the proposal.

[danceronice]

LOL! I'm the opposite, I absolutely cannot stand Edith. I don't think anything Mary has done to Edith justified her sending the letter to the Turkish embassy. Of course, the Pamuk situation coming out would have damaged Edith's own chances, and it would have served her right. I cheered when Mary told Strallan Edith was dreading the proposal.

I didn't quite cheer, but I definitely didn't feel sorry for Edith. Sending the letter didn't just smear Mary (somewhat unfairly), she basically risked humiliating her entire family, without even there being any sort of moral high ground. It's not like Mary murdered Pamuk. He didn't exactly act honorably, either--in fact letting word get around that someone from their embassy was at best seducing English girls or at worst assaulting them (and if her father has friends in the right places, guess which way they're going to spin it) isn't doing the Turkish ambassador any favors or helping Anglo-Turkic relations. Not that those end up glowingly anyway, but they weren't at war then. So basically Edith put out a story that hurt way more people than just Mary and gained absolutely nothing by it except pissing off her sister, which came back to bite her.

[nubka]

Wow, liking Edith around here is just about as popular as liking Plushenko (which I do! )

[nubka]

Is this on tonight?

[Amy L]

It's listed on my TiVo's to do list, so it's on at the regular time here in Houston. If it's not in your listings, then maybe your local PBS station is planning something else.

[Impromptu]

Yes, it's listed for Minneapolis, followed by episode one of the 2010 version of Upstairs/Downstairs (which I've not seen). Wheee!

[nubka]

The first episode of the new Napoleon Dynamite animated series comes on tonight, also. It's going to be a tough choice, cause even though both shows are totally different, I want to watch them both, lol!

[danceronice]

Wow, liking Edith around here is just about as popular as liking Plushenko (which I do! )

I don't DISlike her, but until her stint doing manual labor (this whole 'driving' thing seemed a little out of left field, unless the going-motoring with Potential Groom last season was supposed to be foreshadowing) I didn't think she was especially bright or useful. She was acting like a selfish brat and ended up hurting more people than Mary, and then it came back and bit her. But she was just stupid, not bitter and hateful like O'Brien or overtly sociopathic like Thomas.

[Civic]

LOL! I'm the opposite, I absolutely cannot stand Edith. I don't think anything Mary has done to Edith justified her sending the letter to the Turkish embassy. Of course, the Pamuk situation coming out would have damaged Edith's own chances, and it would have served her right. I cheered when Mary told Strallan Edith was dreading the proposal.

Neither Mary nor Edith have behaved wisely, imo. Edith screwed up big time for all the reasons Chelle outlined. However, I still think it was a mistake for Mary to sink Edith's chances with Mr. Strallan. Marrying Strallan would have got her out of Downton Abbey and Mary's hair. For that reason alone, Mary should have been all for it. Sometimes when you're dealing with a jealous, insecure person the smartest strategy can be to let them win once in a while. Edith believes (rightly or wrongly) that she is always in the one down position vis-a-vis Mary. Marrying before her prettier, elder sister would have been a real victory for her.

[danceronice]

Oh, Branson...you just go right on telling yourself the Bolsheviks mean well. Right up until they machine-gun those girls and throw their bodies down a mine shaft....their aunt Elizabeth even got to be a saint and martyr after those well-meaning Bolsheviks threw her down a mine shaft and threw grenades down until she and her companions stopped singing hymns and presumably were dead...

[PRlady]

Oh, Branson...you just go right on telling yourself the Bolsheviks mean well. Right up until they machine-gun those girls and throw their bodies down a mine shaft....their aunt Elizabeth even got to be a saint and martyr after those well-meaning Bolsheviks threw her down a mine shaft and threw grenades down until she and her companions stopped singing hymns and presumably were dead...

Uh, Branson wasn't the first idealist to believe in the revolution, he had a lot of company. And things looked so bad from a lot of perspectives back then I don't blame them for hoping. From an Irish perspective he was pretty justified in dumping the crud on the general's head, at the very least, and from a proletarian perspective, why the hell should he or anyone else accept the class system as ordained and unbreakable?

(As for Mary and Edith, I've sympathized with Mary all along. But I had dinner with a friend who's a middle child of three daughters and she took Edith's side. I'm the older of two girls. How much of our sympathies are engendered by birth order? )

[my little pony]

well if edith cant find a husband in a house full of housebound officers, there is no hope for her

[pollyanna]

I haven't been an Edith fan, and I was pissed at her for encouraging the advances of a married man, worse yet, a working class man near her father's estate. But I was glad to see her find a worthwhile occupation in this episode and apparently she's good at it. I still don't like her.

I was very impressed with how Mary handled the Lavinia information and put her interfering Aunt Rosamund in her place.