Downton Abbey--Upstairs/Downstairs, Stiff Upper Lips, and Tea!

[aliceanne]

Well, I hope Mary doesn't marry Matthew. He's pretty and nice, but not very interesting.

[Peaches LaTour]

We were rather disappointed in last nights episode because it seemed rather boring and more soap-opera(ish) than any other episode. The scene where Matthew shows up at the concert and starts singing as he walks down the aisle toward Mary made me think too much of "Sound of Music". Seemed really silly.

I think Matthew will have a nervous breakdown.

Yes, it is time for Lady Cora to wake up and smell the coffee in alot of respects, at times she is way to docile; that said, I loved her directness with Cousin Isobel last night. Isobel is right out of a drill sergeant's poster-child dream.

I'm surprised they brought back the character of Ethel. How can her return and "problem" add flavor to the series?

The previews for next week looked good - any guesses on what has gone so terribly wrong that everybody has been pulled out of bed in the middle of the night and is parading through the hallways??

[Cachoo]

Peaches ita about Matthew's appearance and the singing and yet I was touched. But you are right and sometimes the way the music swells rather loudly and touches like Matthew last night make me think pure soap. The hour before the show was dedicated to an hour long doc. about life in a manor house in the Edwardian age. The houses were beautiful but the life of housemaids and scullery maids were so hard. It sounds like the sixteen hour work day was not unusual and the staircases they were forced to use (so as not to be seen by the family) were steep and dangerous (especially when they had to lug buckets of water up for bath time.) Now I understand why the typewriter was such an important invention. I'm glad Cora is in the Masterpiece story. The doc explained that in the twenty years before WWI there was an influx of sixty million (not sure if pounds or dollars) due to American heiresses marrying for a title. I want to know when (is it called entail?) ended.

[Wyliefan]

Entail was mentioned in a 1942 Lord Peter Wimsey story, so apparently it was still going in the 1940s. When it actually ended, I'm not sure.

[skatingfan5]

Entail was mentioned in a 1942 Lord Peter Wimsey story, so apparently it was still going in the 1940s. When it actually ended, I'm not sure.

I think the law re: entails in England changed in 1925, at least according to Wikipedia (which mentions a Dorothy Sayres novel in which the motive for murder was the new law taking effect on January 1, 1926).

[Wyliefan]

The law in that story dealt with something different -- it had to do with whether a great-niece could inherit.

In the 1942 story, Harriet tells someone that Peter's property is entailed, so their oldest son will inherit.

[danceronice]

I think the law re: entails in England changed in 1925, at least according to Wikipedia (which mentions a Dorothy Sayres novel in which the motive for murder was the new law taking effect on January 1, 1926).

Yes. The Peter Wimsey books are set in a kind of vague inter-war period, definitely NOT the 1940s. (He's a WWI vet, which is how he met Bunter, and while it's never specified in most of the books they have a very twenties feel.)

Cachoo--if you want to see more about Edwardian manor life, try and find "Manor House." It's like 1900 House, Frontier House, etc. where a bunch of modern people are taken to a property and placed in the roles of the family and in this case servants of the given period and they have to live STRICTLY by the rules of the time and with the technology and amenities of the day. (Within reason--obviously in a true medical emergency people could leave, for example.) IIRC, at least one, possibly two, scullery maids snapped and took off, and I think they lost a footman as well. Of course on a lot of these shows people crack--Colonial House (a Puritan Village) was full of whiners, and on Frontier House the experts at the end of the series figured only one of the three households had adequate stores and housing to have lived through the winter.

[manleywoman]

I thought bringing back Ethel was pointless too. Why should they care if she's pregnant?

[skatingfan5]

I thought bringing back Ethel was pointless too. Why should they care if she's pregnant?

Because they're not completely heartless people? She was turned off without any references and likely doesn't have any place else to go for help. Not sure if the officer who was "convalescing" is still around, but I would think that he could/would be made to provide some sort of $$ assistance (of course, he's likely to claim that the father of the child could be anyone but him).

[vesperholly]

I thought bringing back Ethel was pointless too. Why should they care if she's pregnant?

And more importantly, the viewers don't care! In other forums I've read (while the series was airing in Britain), no one cared about Ethel, so her storyline was just a big time-suck.

[Civic]

What the hell is Thomas's PROBLEM.

I guess I'm glad he's around. Everyone else is being a bit too saintly.

You know, I get Thomas. He's despicable but I usually understand his motivations. IMO, much of his malice is rooted in his resentment of his lot in life. It's his fate to live in a time and place where social mobility for the lower classes was limited. His sexual orientation is an added complication for him.

[manleywoman]

And more importantly, the viewers don't care! In other forums I've read (while the series was airing in Britain), no one cared about Ethel, so her storyline was just a big time-suck.

Exactly.

[Cachoo]

Yes. The Peter Wimsey books are set in a kind of vague inter-war period, definitely NOT the 1940s. (He's a WWI vet, which is how he met Bunter, and while it's never specified in most of the books they have a very twenties feel.)

Cachoo--if you want to see more about Edwardian manor life, try and find "Manor House." It's like 1900 House, Frontier House, etc. where a bunch of modern people are taken to a property and placed in the roles of the family and in this case servants of the given period and they have to live STRICTLY by the rules of the time and with the technology and amenities of the day. (Within reason--obviously in a true medical emergency people could leave, for example.) IIRC, at least one, possibly two, scullery maids snapped and took off, and I think they lost a footman as well. Of course on a lot of these shows people crack--Colonial House (a Puritan Village) was full of whiners, and on Frontier House the experts at the end of the series figured only one of the three households had adequate stores and housing to have lived through the winter.

I did see Colonial House (if that was the one where one of woman temporarily left the show when her fiance was killed in a car wreck elsewhere) and Frontier House (I thought the one of the families was especially whiny in that one--the guy who thought he was dropping too much weight)---but I missed Manor House. I'll look on Netflix: If the working conditions matched what I saw in that documentary I would have snapped too. What is scary is that before the typewriter the feeling I took from the show was that working in a manor house was considered a lucky assignment compared to what work was available outside of the house. Now that is sad.... Thanks for mentioning Manor House--I would have missed it otherwise.

[Civic]

....What is scary is that before the typewriter the feeling I took from the show was that working in a manor house was considered a lucky assignment compared to what work was available outside of the house. Now that is sad.... Thanks for mentioning Manor House--I would have missed it otherwise...

The only other options for young women without much formal education during that period were factory work (which was more dangerous than domestic work) or lighter types of farm labor like working as a dairy maid. Young women with a flair for fashion might seek an apprenticeship to a dressmaker or milliner (hat maker) but these didn't pay well.

[my little pony]

And more importantly, the viewers don't care! In other forums I've read (while the series was airing in Britain), no one cared about Ethel, so her storyline was just a big time-suck.

yes!

she's not likable and not even in an interesting way

[danceronice]

The only other options for young women without much formal education during that period were factory work (which was more dangerous than domestic work) or lighter types of farm labor like working as a dairy maid. Young women with a flair for fashion might seek an apprenticeship to a dressmaker or milliner (hat maker) but these didn't pay well.

Yes, housework was HARD, but it wasn't especially likely to kill or maim you, and even "lighter" farm work can get you killed or seriously injured. (Even now, agricultural jobs are really not great as far as hours and injury go.) Going into service was considered a step up, and it did guarantee you a roof and food, where factory work meant crap wages, bad hours, questionable conditions (dangerous machinery, painting china with lead, painting watches with RADIUM) and once you're off the clock you're on your own.

Maybe the writers assume that since no one likes Ethel, they enjoy actively getting to watch her suffer? (Or they want to swipe Sarah's plot device from early Upstairs Downstairs....)

[skatingfan5]

Maybe the writers assume that since no one likes Ethel, they enjoy actively getting to watch her suffer? (Or they want to swipe Sarah's plot device from early Upstairs Downstairs....)

Well, if that's what they were attempting it's definitely a letdown. Ethel and her officer pales in comparison with Sarah's affair and getting pregnant by Lord Bellamy's son ... and especially returning to Eaton Place to give birth the night the king comes to dinner. Pretty hard to match that storyline.

[danceronice]

Well, if that's what they were attempting it's definitely a letdown. Ethel and her officer pales in comparison with Sarah's affair and getting pregnant by Lord Bellamy's son ... and especially returning to Eaton Place to give birth the night the king comes to dinner. Pretty hard to match that storyline.

For pure Edwardian soapy goodness it's hard to match Upstairs Downstairs in any respect! Heck, we never even met the Downton Titanic victims, while with U/D, who saw THAT coming?

[Coco]

My little pony, I think "pointy birds" was from L.A. Story, unless Steve Martin used it twice.

[Civic]

From what I've read, young women in domestic service also had better marriage prospects than young women who worked in factories. In addition to their male co-workers they could also aspire to marry tradesmen or small business owners; i.e. glaziers, masons, grocers, pub owners, etc. Marriage was how most women obtained financial security back then. A prospective husband's earning potential was even more important then than it is now.

Yes, housework was HARD, but it wasn't especially likely to kill or maim you, and even "lighter" farm work can get you killed or seriously injured. (Even now, agricultural jobs are really not great as far as hours and injury go.) Going into service was considered a step up, and it did guarantee you a roof and food, where factory work meant crap wages, bad hours, questionable conditions (dangerous machinery, painting china with lead, painting watches with RADIUM) and once you're off the clock you're on your own...[/SIZE])

As for Ethel, her storyline might be more interesting *if* the character were more sympathetic and *if* Downton Abbey didn't already have several engrossing storylines in play.