lutz help (+drawing of tracings!)

[Spazactaz]

haha, the jump tracing thread inspired me to post this.

my technique on my lutz is MESSSSSSSSED up... it makes the triple way harder than it should. when i pick in..... the weight from my skating side lifts up. so when i take off... there is a huge gap between my feet.

a perfect lutz should have the skating foot come pass right beside the picking foot on the takeoff

here's my lovely drawing of the ideal lutz vs my lutz:
http://i51.tinypic.com/4s1p1e.gif

ANY SUGGESTIONS for what i can do to get from mine to the ideal?? i think i'm hopeless as i've been trying for like 5 years to change the technique and can't.. but i'm always open to hear new things! thanks!

[hanca]

I am not a coach but shouldn't you have the draw? Your muscles pulling the legs together. From your pictures, you must do some pulling because the legs are not that appart, so it is just the last bit. What about pulling more forcefully until the legs are very near to each other? What it is that doesn't allow to get the front leg nearer, do you run out of time and need to jump?

[smarts1]

Do you mean you reach too far back?

[hanca]

Is there anything like reaching too far back? When I do Lutz, I am trying to reach as far as I can (while making sure my top part of the body does not bend too much forward). I found that the further back I reach, the stronger my Lutz is.

[Aussie Willy]

It is hard to tell if your technique is messed up by just a tracing. Are you able to post a clip like you have done in the past?

[ltnskater]

I have a similar problem, it is not the case that we don`t reach back far enough (I do), it`s the case where after I pick, the takeoff does not draw in enough before I lift off which causes the space in between the blade tracing with where the toe pick was placed making it much harder to do

(Of course, mine is even worse, as my toe pick placement is actually crossed over even more)

[smarts1]

Is there anything like reaching too far back? When I do Lutz, I am trying to reach as far as I can (while making sure my top part of the body does not bend too much forward). I found that the further back I reach, the stronger my Lutz is.

The thing about getting TOO much of a reach is that the jump will end up getting longer and lower, and you'll probably end up under-rotating the jump. But of course, you need a good, solid reach to get some good height and rotation.

So the OP's problem is that she puts the toepick sort of like right behind the skating leg?

[Spazactaz]

yeah my free foot does pick behind the skating leg way too much as well... fixing a flutz caused that, and now it's pretty much impossible to just reach straight back behind my hip.

i try as hard as i can to draw the foot in... it just doesn't work. i don't understand WHYYYYYY. i'm not sure if it's a problem of reaching too far back... most skaters do this, but are still able to somehow gather both legs underneath them before they jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAl9oCjeo64
there's a video with some lutzes though... it's hard to see what i'm describing though. most people say my lutz looks normal but then they DIEEEEEE when they see my tracing and don't know how it's possible how i jump it at all.

[briancoogaert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAl9oCjeo64
there's a video with some lutzes though... it's hard to see what i'm describing though. most people say my lutz looks normal but then they DIEEEEEE when they see my tracing and don't know how it's possible how i jump it at all.

Yes ! It's obvious on the video. Your left foot is too far from your right foot when you leave the ice.
It's the same technique as Joubert, but Joubert has such a great power, I guess he is able to compensate !
You need to rework your single and double Lutz, I guess. But I'm not a professional !

[vesperholly]

There is certainly a draw back in your take-off, but possibly not enough to give you the momentum to complete the jump.

I've watched the second lutz in your video over and over again. It's starting to look like your upper body is not in sync with your lower body. You're doing a lot of counter rotation in your hips, which gets you onto an outside edge, but it looks like your right shoulder isn't following the right hip. You're pulling the left shoulder back slightly and rotating over the center of the body, instead of the right side. Maybe that's why you fall out of the circle every time.

Then again, I'm no elite-level coach What does your coach say??

[smarts1]

^ Yeah, his right side is too dropped. Bring it up and the jump should be fine.

[Spazactaz]

I don't have a coach. Though I have worked with several different ones on this, some who even coached Olympic champions... none of them were really able to figure out why this is happening or what to do to fix it. So many different opinions, etc.

But yeah fixing the right side may make the jump fine.. in the sense that it's landed. My triple lutz was consistent for many years, but now I don't think I've landed one probably in over a year. I want to fix this so badly because I know the jump will be suuuuuuuper easy if I was doing it correctly instead of it taking like 100% of my energy and strength to force myself through it.

[minx]

The set up is textbook, but on the reach the hip pops out and your body is out of alignment. Left hip out/right shoulder compensates. I didn't know you were still skating, can you do varsity or Triathlon or something like that this year?

[FigureSpins]

Good luck then!

[Spazactaz]

The set up is textbook, but on the reach the hip pops out and your body is out of alignment. Left hip out/right shoulder compensates. I didn't know you were still skating, can you do varsity or Triathlon or something like that this year?

You know who I am?? haha.. who are you? But yeah.. after I did so badly last year I sort of stopped for a while, and figured it'd be pointless to compete anymore without at least up through triple axel consistent.

and I realize what you guys are saying... there are definitely other aspects of the jump that can be fixed as well.. but it's just this one specific problem that I want to fix. And I don't think changing the things being mentioned will help with being able to draw my foot in and jump with both of my feet underneath me. That feels like my main issue, and if I fix that then the rest from there will be easy.

[smarts1]

^ Maybe then you could change the entrance to get what you want. Skaters who do a shorter entrance like a crossover into the lutz (ie the entrance Slutskaya uses) tend to toepick farther away from the skating foot and not directly behind your skating leg.

But either way, yeah your shoulder alignment is not good and you are dropping the right side.

[vesperholly]

and I realize what you guys are saying... there are definitely other aspects of the jump that can be fixed as well.. but it's just this one specific problem that I want to fix. And I don't think changing the things being mentioned will help with being able to draw my foot in and jump with both of my feet underneath me. That feels like my main issue, and if I fix that then the rest from there will be easy.

Well, the goal is to land the jump, yes? Consistently and correctly? I really didn't see a huge problem with the shorter draw-back in the entrance, and based on the video, I don't think that is what is causing you to fall, either. Of course, the videos were not close-up or slow motion, and there are only a few attempts in them. It's hard to say.

Do you have video of you landing triple lutzes? If you've been landing it consistently for years, as you said earlier, let's figure what's different in the jump.

[minx]

Spaz - I recognized you. I am at challenges every year, sometimes volunteered, sometimes not. I won't tell but will say hi next year when you're back

[Spazactaz]

there's one landed from the same day in this vid (though it's not the greatest):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhvPGXexhuw
i can't find one from my earlier years at the moment

but really the goal right now is just to fix the technique.... if i really needed to land the jump i'm sure i could manage, but i don't want it to take SOOOOOO much energy and strength because of my horrrrrrible technique. it's probably bad on my body too. everyone says their 3lutz is just super easy and natural...... but mine does NOT feel like that, while the rest of my triples do... so that's all i want... i don't care if it takes forever before i land another one as long as it's fixed :p

[smarts1]

^ Try to change the entrance (to like a short crossover and not a straight reach back)! It should help with your toepick placement.

And you really need to bring the right side up on the takeoff.