View Poll Results: ISU MIN SCORE RULE

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I think the minimum qualifying score makes sense. There are only so many spots available at the Championships, so they should not be giving places to skaters who can't achieve even the minimum score. The minimums were really set pretty low and should only keep out the weakest skaters,
    I agree on that point -- it's not as if the skaters who have tried and failed to reach the minimums are solid senior-level skaters. If they were, they'd be able to meet the minimums.

    It is always easy to blame the rules, but if a federation finds themselves with a good skater who still has not posted a qualifying score, they really need to blame themselves (or maybe the skater/coach, if they were given opportunities and did not take advantage of them). They have all known about this rule all season.
    It's more of a problem this year than it will be in the future, because it's supposed to use two year's worth of competition results, but the federations and skaters did not know about it last season in time to maximize the number of skaters sent to senior B events.

    Now they know.

    For small European countries, sending their best skaters to senior Bs is not much hardship.

    For small countries in Asia, Oceania, Africa, it means paying for extra long trips in addition to or instead of the long trip to 4Cs. But the small skating countries probably only have a few skaters capable of meeting the minimums anyway.

    For countries like the US and Canada and Japan who may have >20 age-eligible senior skaters capable of meeting the minimums and deserving a trip to Four Continents, they may not be able to predict a year or two in advance who's going to place high enough to earn a 4Cs slot that year.

    Even if they make sure to send 20 ladies to either junior or senior fall events, what happens if the one who was 21st on the list for fall assignments based on last year's results has a breakthrough season and ends up 3rd at Nationals?

    And of course injuries that take a skater out of the fall season can also mean no trip to 4Cs that year.

    Given the tight time frame between Nationals and 4Cs there may not be time to send that skater to a winter senior B event even if an appropriate one exists. For Worlds there's a little more leeway if there are enough winter B events. This rule will make those events more valuable.

  2. #22
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    I think it isn't a bad idea, since there are too many skaters.

    I wonder if there was another way, because it is really a hassle for the big skating countries.

    I think about ice hockey, where these is A and B world championships. The team(s) that does best in B gets to go to A next year. Countries like US, Canada, Russia will always go to A, since they are so strong hockey nations.

    Another way of thinking of it is to maybe not have minimum score for 4CC or Euros, but only for worlds?

  3. #23

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    As Gkelly suggests, this will certainly be an issue that should prompt more Senior Bs in more parts of the world, and some late fall, early winter Senior Bs would be particularly helpful, either for "breakout" skaters or for returning elite skaters who are coming back from injury.

    I'd be in favor of a much higher qualifying standard option that would let skaters reach back three years (which should cover even severe injuries), and a different mechanism for pairs/dance teams that are new couples who both previously met the standard (or, perhaps a higher standard) with a prior partner.

  4. #24

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    Please keep it or we may still have every little rich girl from suburban Washington, DC, skating for unknown countries and making it to the SPs ar Euros or Worlds.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Please keep it or we may still have every little rich girl from suburban Washington, DC, skating for unknown countries and making it to the SPs ar Euros or Worlds.
    This rule doesn't really prevent that, assuming those countries are willing send Susie Suburb out to a B comp sometime during the year. Susie still has to be good enough to make the top 28 cut for the SP anyway...in which case I don't really see the problem. If you're a European skater losing to the US-living national champion of Thailand or Taiwan or Philippines, maybe its time to start mulling over your other career options...

  6. #26
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    Does this also mean that during an Olympic year, if a skater makes the minimum score and earns a country's spot during the Nebelhorn or Olympic qualifier, the country is now either forced to send that same skater or give up their spot unless they had another skater earn the minimum score?

  7. #27

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    Probably. AFAIK the current rules apply only to senior ISU championships, but they might make it also apply to Olympics before 2014.

    Keep in mind that there are limited spots per discipline available at the Olympics and the skill level required to earn one is a lot higher than the skill level required to earn the minimum score. So it wouldn't serve the purpose of keeping out skaters who are unable to do any triple jumps or get credit and non-negative GOE for their non-jump elements. Which means there might not be any incentive to apply this rule to the Olympics.

    If they do apply it, then it would really only keep out "new" or injured/returning skaters who didn't compete internationally at all the previous season or the previous fall, or those who did compete internationally but scored far below their potential.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Probably. AFAIK the current rules apply only to senior ISU championships, but they might make it also apply to Olympics before 2014.

    Keep in mind that there are limited spots per discipline available at the Olympics and the skill level required to earn one is a lot higher than the skill level required to earn the minimum score. So it wouldn't serve the purpose of keeping out skaters who are unable to do any triple jumps or get credit and non-negative GOE for their non-jump elements. Which means there might not be any incentive to apply this rule to the Olympics.
    It could also keep out an "2nd skater" (or "3rd skater") from a country that had one or two successful skaters the previous year, but no one else even close to their level (i.e., Georgia could have sent a 2nd lady to the 2010 Olympics, but chose not to. The qualifying score wouldn't have given them a choice).

  9. #29

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    Oh yeah, that is true.

  10. #30
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    What, if anything, is accomplished by requiring a minimum score if there is a Qualifying Round? Less chance of burnout for the judges during the Short Program? I would assume that there are expenses in having two days of Qualifying Rounds that would not be incurred if all the entrants skate in the Short Program.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post
    IMO this ISU minimum TES score rule is for the birds. Adriana DeSanctis can't go to 4CC because Skate Canada never bothered to send her out this year to get the min score, and now she can't do GP next year, sans SC. I mean, who is this rule helping? Curious what others think though.
    Ridiculous situations like this are exactly the reason why the minimum score should be scrapped.

    At the moment it's so low, it's not really stopping anybody from taking part in ISU Championships anyway.

    I am assuming it's going to get raised each season, though, eliminating more and more skaters.

    Add the reduction in the number of skaters competing in SP and FS and we'll end up in a situation where figure skating is alive in a small handful of countries only.

    That's where ISU seems to be going for. That's where the money is so screw everybody else.

    It makes me sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I feel they should also add a provision for high level skaters who are competing with new partners (i.e Volosozhar/Trankov).
    Simply: If both partners achieved the minimum score with previous partners, the new team should get cleared too.

    I mean imagine a situation if there was no international competition between Volosozhar's release date and Worlds.

    A team that is one of the favourites to medal or even win would not be able to compete because of a technicality.

  12. #32
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    Dump!

    IMO this ISU minimum TES score rule was written for judges. I like both strong skaters and "weak" skaters

  13. #33
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    I was soooo confused when I read this thread... "Canadian Nationals already happened???" I didn't realize it was a year old.

  14. #34
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    In fact, I don't have any idea about that. But if there's a rule, it needs to be applied to everybody

  15. #35
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    While I am in favour of it, this rule can be a Catch - 22, particularly for skaters in the Asia / Pacific regions, unlike Europe, they need to travel far greater distances to achieve qualification.

    In order for a skater to meet the international score necessary for entry into championship competition, I am in favour of them gaining that experience via Senior B events.

    In able to meet this standard, monitoring the skater's performance at home in local and national events means sending a skater any association can be confident will meet this standard.
    Last edited by essence_of_soy; 01-07-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Ridiculous situations like this are exactly the reason why the minimum score should be scrapped.

    I mean imagine a situation if there was no international competition between Volosozhar's release date and Worlds.

    A team that is one of the favourites to medal or even win would not be able to compete because of a technicality.
    Imagine


  17. #37
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    I think we all know the reason this rule was implemented by the ISU...to save time and money.
    It's not just about money. The problem was that the fields at Worlds (esp in singles) had gotten so large that it was difficult and very tiring for the judging panel to get though them all and maintain any kind of consistency or fairness from the first to the last skater. They have used a preliminary qualifying round in various ways to reduce the fields, but I like them less than the qualifying score concept.

    I think the idea of a minimum qualifying score is sound and fundamenatally fair (as long as they don't start arbitrarily waiving it for one skater or another ). Lots of other sports use qualifying times or distances for their championships.

    I like danafan's suggestion of applying the qualifying scores only to Worlds (and Olympics, I guess). The problem of the breakthrough performance at Nationals would be solved if the skaters could go to Europeans and 4C, where they'd have a chance to post a qualifying score before Worlds.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I like danafan's suggestion of applying the qualifying scores only to Worlds (and Olympics, I guess). The problem of the breakthrough performance at Nationals would be solved if the skaters could go to Europeans and 4C, where they'd have a chance to post a qualifying score before Worlds.
    Great idea.

    I think eventually, Four Continents and Europeans will act as the qualifying event for the World Championships.

  19. #39

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    Not if they're going to grant exceptions...

  20. #40
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    If a country is an ISU member, it should automatically get to send at least one representative to Worlds and to the appropriate "regional" competition (like 4Cs or Euros) without any minimum qualifying score.

    Frankly, I don't care if the representative is actually "some little rich girl from suburban Washington, DC". Most countries are very proud of the achievements of their emigrants, and having the country represented at the event will still bring attention in that country to the sport of skating.

    If someone is so unqualified as to be a danger to other competitors (which IIRC was the case a few years ago with a pair at a JGP event) I am pretty sure the referee or event chair has the ability to disqualify them.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

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