View Poll Results: Which dominant lady champion had most competition during time on top

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  • Witt 1984-1988

    5 1.74%
  • Fleming 1966-1968

    0 0%
  • Hamill 1974-1976

    1 0.35%
  • Fratianne 1977-1979

    0 0%
  • Kwan 1996-2003

    132 45.83%
  • Slutskaya 2000-2005

    18 6.25%
  • Kim 2007-to date

    102 35.42%
  • Asada 2007-2010

    16 5.56%
  • Yamaguchi 1991-1992 (or 1991-1997 extended to pros)

    5 1.74%
  • Ito 1989-1992

    4 1.39%
  • Lipinski 1997-1998

    2 0.69%
  • other

    3 1.04%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwantumleap View Post
    I think the judges have really wanted Kostner as world champion for a while now. Kostner has many great qualities about her skating, but unless she's able to overcome the sea of hurdles in her way, when all is said and done I don't think we'll look back on her as having been a major factor. I hope she's not swept in to the category of what could have been.
    It is pointless to even consider Kostner possibly winning a major title now. She cant even do the triple lutz or triple flip anymore it seems.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is pointless to even consider Kostner possibly winning a major title now. She cant even do the triple lutz or triple flip anymore it seems.
    Carolina hasn't been attempting Flips and Lutzes because of her injury.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikiAndoFan#1 View Post
    Carolina hasn't been attempting Flips and Lutzes because of her injury.
    Whatever, we will see. When is the last time she even scored over 120 in a free skate. There is about as much chance of Kostner winning a World title in the future at this point as Caroline Zhang of winning a U.S title.

    That said from 2007-2009 she was definitely a threat, and nearly won Worlds in 2008 (even if controversially so).

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Whatever, we will see. When is the last time she even scored over 120 in a free skate. There is about as much chance of Kostner winning a World title in the future at this point as Caroline Zhang of winning a U.S title.
    Carolina scored over 124 points at this year's nationals. And I disagree with your statement regarding Carolina and Caroline. I think there is no comparison between their situations. Carolina can very well win Worlds this year.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikiAndoFan#1 View Post
    Carolina scored over 124 points at this year's nationals. And I disagree with your statement regarding Carolina and Caroline. I think there is no comparison between their situations. Carolina can very well win Worlds this year.
    Kinda sad but true. Caroline is a contender with her loops and toes.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    Kinda sad but true. Caroline is a contender with her loops and toes.
    Jumps aren't everything in figure skating.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikiAndoFan#1 View Post
    Jumps aren't everything in figure skating.
    No, but they can't be ignored completely. Her spins and spirals aren't the best in the world either. Her speed and edges are one of the best though. Anyway... back on top...

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    No, but they can't be ignored completely.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    Her spins and spirals aren't the best in the world either.
    They are not bad, either. Carolina has been doing well this season and I can totally picture her winning Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    Anyway... back on top...
    Yes, lets get back on topic.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikiAndoFan#1 View Post
    Carolina scored over 124 points at this year's nationals. And I disagree with your statement regarding Carolina and Caroline. I think there is no comparison between their situations. Carolina can very well win Worlds this year.
    We will have to agree to disagree. Carolina is no threat to Yu Na Kim, Miki Ando, or a reasonably in form Asada the way she is skating now. She couldnt even beat Czisny at the Grand Prix final remember. The best you can say is she has been able to barely beat people like Flatt and Murakami with how she has been skating so far this season. She would have to be doing triple lutzes, triple flips, and triple-triple combinations to win Worlds, even this year with the standard of womens skating down from most recent years.

    For her to win Worlds skating exactly as she has so far this season would require Kim, Ando, and probably even Asada to all bomb. It would require none of Czisny, Korpi, Lepisto (if at Worlds), or even Nagasu and Murakami to have a great competition. Now if she improves her skating alot from what she has shown in the international events this season then maybe she has a chance, but what she has shown this season despite some good placings would never win Worlds.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I guess the point of the other poster is that Irina wasnt that good a skater before 2000. Which is true. Nobody considered Irina as a threat to win any major events before the 2000 Grand Prix final. She was just one of a bunch of bronze hopefuls in some major events, and definitely no threat to Michelle.

    Etc...
    Which dominant skaters really had more than one main rival for world titles for extended periods of time? Is that even a realistic standard given the history of the dominant figures in ladies skating?

    Yu Na has had Mao as her competitor for World and Olympic titles. By a lot of the accepted logic here, Ando, Rochette, and Kostner etc. have been good enough for silver and bronze. Only recently has Ando's fire re-emerged and that seems almost proportional to Mao's recent meltdowns.

    Admitedly, my knowledge about skating beFore the 90s is not that great, but even thinking back to the time of Ito vs. Harding... we all know that didn't amount to much in terms of a head-to-head while both were dominant.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwantumleap View Post
    Which dominant skaters really had more than one main rival for world titles for extended periods of time? Is that even a realistic standard given the history of the dominant figures in ladies skating?

    Yu Na has had Mao as her competitor for World and Olympic titles. By a lot of the accepted logic here, Ando, Rochette, and Kostner etc. have been good enough for silver and bronze. Only recently has Ando's fire re-emerged and that seems almost proportional to Mao's recent meltdowns.

    Admitedly, my knowledge about skating beFore the 90s is not that great, but even thinking back to the time of Ito vs. Harding... we all know that didn't amount to much in terms of a head-to-head while both were dominant.
    Of course it is subjective.

    However in my opinion:

    Zayak and Sumners were both major threats to Witt at the same time from 82-83. Chin and Ivanova were both major threats to Witt in 85-86. Thomas and Manley were both major threats to Witt from 86-88 (minus Manley in 86). So 84 was the only season Witt had only one main rival. Even Kadavy came quite close to winning Worlds in 87 over Witt and Thomas both at their best in 87 (not winning by others bombing like Butyrskaya or Hughes or even Arakawa).

    Harding and Ito were both major threats to Yamaguchi in 91-92, and then after Yamaguchi turned pro Ito, Sato, and Biellmann were all main rivals to her. If it had not been for the figures Ito would have had no threats before 91 but because of figures she had major threats from Trenary and Leistner in 89 and Trenary and Lebedeva in 1990, as much as in free skating alone she made them look like novice ladies.

    And Ando as not only a World Champion, but someone who beat Asada twice already at Worlds, and someone who has finished over Asada in quite a few events over the year (even if Kim not so many) and is arguably right now the favorite to win Worlds for a 2nd time this season, would have to be considered a 2nd major threat to both Kim and Asada over this period, in addition to each other. And maybe I was misinterpreting you but you seemed to think Kostner had been in years past as well.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Harding and Ito were both major threats to Yamaguchi in 91-92, and then after Yamaguchi turned pro Ito, Sato, and Biellmann were all main rivals to her. If it had not been for the figures Ito would have had no threats before 91 but because of figures she had major threats from Trenary and Leistner in 89 and Trenary and Lebedeva in 1990, as much as in free skating alone she made them look like novice ladies.
    From what I remember, Midori wasn't just a threat to Yamaguchi but she was the "Favorite" over Yamaguchi. Ito had collision with Hubert and injured right before the SP in 1991. In 1992, Midori was still the heavy favorite going into the olympics.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I definitely wouldnt pick Kwan.
    Nor would I. As of now, 67% of the vote? I guess it really is true that Kwan has to win every poll.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Nor would I. As of now, 67% of the vote?
    The truth hurts

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Nor would I. As of now, 67% of the vote? I guess it really is true that Kwan has to win every poll.
    One ironic thing is most ardent Kwan fans I have seen seem to diss and be completely unimpressed by each of Slutskaya, Lipinski, Cohen, Hughes, and be amazed any of those were allowed and overscored by judges to even beat or challenge Kwan as much as they did. Basically you would think all were mediocre skaters reading the assessments given on them. Yet in a "most competition" poll all the Kwan fans vote for her and she wins going away. Go figure.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    From what I remember, Midori wasn't just a threat to Yamaguchi but she was the "Favorite" over Yamaguchi. Ito had collision with Hubert and injured right before the SP in 1991. In 1992, Midori was still the heavy favorite going into the olympics.
    Ito was definitely the favorite for both the 91 Worlds and 92 Olympics. No question Yamaguchi was the underdog to Ito going into the 92 Olympics, and underdog to both Harding and Ito going into the 91 Worlds. Still I predicted Ito would be upset/lose at the 91 Worlds even before her injury in warmup. I had a feeling Harding or Yamaguchi would win it that year, more likely Harding after her showing at Nationals. Going into the 92 Games I definitely thought Ito was going to win though, even after Kristi's great performance at Nationals. The 92 Worlds is the only event I felt pretty sure Kristi was going to win (she would have been favored to win there even if Ito had entered, coming off her Oly Gold and being almost in her hometown).

    It is hard to rate Kristi's competition that highly in a way I guess since Ito and Harding never skated anywhere near their potential in the big World events those 2 years, and the rest including Kerrigan werent very good yet. The 91 Worlds and 92 Olympics were potentially amazing competitions, probably should have been the best of all time if all 3 had skated their best, which never panned out to be.

  17. #57
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    Guys, all this talk about Carolina not having a shot. Lepisto with all her doubles beat Ando who had a nice clean FS at Worlds last year. The judges like to have at least one European lady up their in the standings. I'd say Caro is a contender even with her loops and sals, the other ladies can afford more mistakes than she can, sure, but if Caro goes clean with the layout she's been doing so far this season, she will score well and could very easily medal.

  18. #58
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    Ando bombed the short at last years Worlds with 2 falls which is the only reason she lost to Lepisto at last years Worlds (which people who cried about the result continually forget). The only one who did 2 clean or almost clean performances with all triples was Phaneuf who lost the medal (barely) since she is a no name on the World level.

    I could see Kostner getting a bronze at Worlds this year maybe. However others are talking about her winning with her current jump content and there is no way that is happening unless we have the worst skated event ever.

    If they need a European lady up there who is to say it will be Kostner. If Korpi skates well and wins Europeans I would say she is the one who will get the most backing at Worlds. She is skating more consistently this year, the judges like her skating as well, and she is atleast doing/trying all the triples.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    Her spins and spirals aren't the best in the world either.
    Kostner is only behind Czisny and Nagasu in terms of spinning ability I believe. She also achieves many difficult positions in her spirals and Caro almost always achieves well deserved high levels on her non-jump elements.

    Her speed and edges are one of the best though.
    THE BEST in the world I believe. I think the judges see her that way too, if only she would skate consistently clean.

    She can be World champ if she skates the way she is capable of and I will be clapping and cheering happily for her if she does it!

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Kostner is only behind Czisny and Nagasu in terms of spinning ability I believe.
    Not sure if you're kidding but not by a long shot.

    She also achieves many difficult positions in her spirals
    She does the same catch-foot variation that we've seen on countless others before.

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