View Poll Results: The most interesting rivalry in figure skating

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  • Yu Na Kim and Mao Asada

    18 7.56%
  • Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan

    18 7.56%
  • Brian Boitano and Brian Orser

    42 17.65%
  • Katarina Witt and Debi Thomas

    7 2.94%
  • Alexei Yagudin and Evgeni Plushenko

    131 55.04%
  • Michelle Kwan and Tara Lipinski

    8 3.36%
  • Scott Hamilton and Scott Cramer

    0 0%
  • Jamie Sale and David Pelletier vs. Yelena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze

    6 2.52%
  • Linda Fratianne and Anett Poetzsch

    3 1.26%
  • Todd Eldredge and Timothy Goebel

    0 0%
  • Other

    5 2.10%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Poetzsch retired after 1980 since she trained with Witt and knew Witt would blow past her with ease almost immediately with the new factored scoring.
    And since she was the current 4-time Euro champ, 2-time World champ and Olympic champion.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I am not a big fan of Witt, but Witt is way better than Poetzsch IMO. Poetzsch never even beat Fratianne in a short or long program after 76 while Witt would blow a pededstrian skater like Fratianne away in free skating, even the younger Witt probably. And of course Witt was far more consistent than Poetzsch who atleast half the time bombed in the free skating (77 Worlds, 79 Worlds, 80 Worlds, many other events). Poetzsch retired after 1980 since she trained with Witt and knew Witt would blow past her with ease almost immediately with the new factored scoring.
    How do you know this? Did Anett tell you personally? Actually Anett was entered for Europeans in 1981 but withdrew with an 'injury'. I believe the same occured for Worlds in Hartford. Apparently Anett wanted to turn pro and who can blame her? She'd been competing in major senior competition since 1973 aged 12. I don't think Witt's superior free skating was necessarily the issue for Anett in 1981. Even with the advent of factored placements, Witt's poor figures and Anett's great ones would have made sure Witt came nowhere near her at least for one more season.

  3. #43
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    Well I remember reading a book at Chapters although I dont have it at home that Witt was outskating Poetzsch technically in practice at only 13 and 14 and that Annett was resentful of her because of it and a bit cold towards her, and also was terrified of the younger more talented skater coming up training with the same coach.

    By the 1981 Worlds I dont know where Poetzsch would be placing in free skating but she wouldnt have been able to beat people like Biellmann or Zayak (and possibly even a still very young Witt) even with her past best efforts, so 3rd or 4th place in the long program as a starting point if she did her potential best, but then when you factor in her own inconsistency in free skating and who knows how far she could possibly drop in the free skating portions and how that would factor in if she kept winning figures.

  4. #44
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    Where's Midori vs Kristi?
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Poetzsch retired after 1980 since she trained with Witt and knew Witt would blow past her with ease almost immediately with the new factored scoring.
    Actually Poetzch was entered in both the 1981 Worlds and Euros and withdrew due to injury. Carola Paul replaced her.

    ETA: Floskate beat me to the above info.

  6. #46
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    The "greatest rivalry ever" was Usova/Zhulin vs. Grishuk/Platov. No one else comes close!

  7. #47
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    In each discipline (and only dealing with rivalries that are completely over)

    Men :

    Gold : Yagudin/Plushenk
    Silver : Brians
    Bronze : Browning/Petrenko
    Pewter: Toller Cranston

    Ladies :
    Gold : Fratianne/Poetzsch
    Silver : Albright/Heiss (as s.o. mentioned they made Yags and Plushy look like a mutual admiration society)
    Bronze : Kwan/Slute
    Pewter : Henie vs all that is good and pure

    Pairs
    gold : not awarded
    silver : S/P vs B/S
    bronze : S/Z vs T/M
    pewter : Rodnina/Zaitsev vs Babilonia/Gardner

    Dance
    gold : G/P vs U/Z
    silver : Duchesnays vs K/P
    bronze : ???
    pewter : Bourne/Kraatz vs judges

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliona22 View Post
    The "greatest rivalry ever" was Usova/Zhulin vs. Grishuk/Platov. No one else comes close!

    Truth.

  9. #49
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    Rodnina & Zaitsev vs Babilonia & Gardner was a rivalry? How, B&G never came even close to beating R&Z that I know of. Even Nancy Kerrigan has come closer to beating Yamaguchi than B&G have R&Z probably, LOL! I guess some think they would have been close at the 1980 Olympics, it is purely a guess really though.

    And G/P vs U/Z in dance? U/Z always easily beat G/P until the 93/94 season, never even came close to losing any portion of a dance event to them, but then G/P suddenly came up in 93/94 and finished over U/Z at Europeans and stole the Oly Gold away from them, then U/Z retired to the pro ranks and the two teams never met again except once as swapped pairs now as U/P and G/Z. It was only a great rivalry off the ice and in tequila bars, LOL!

    I think Anissina & Peizerat vs Fusar Poli & Margalio was a big rivalry in dance in the early 2000s.

    Recogzy & Sallay vs Linichuk & Karpanasov became a big rivalry in 79 and 80, while Linichuk & Karpanasov vs Moiseeva & Minenkov was in 78 and 79.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Rodnina & Zaitsev vs Babilonia & Gardner was a rivalry? How, B&G never came even close to beating R&Z that I know of. Even Nancy Kerrigan has come closer to beating Yamaguchi than B&G have R&Z probably, LOL! I guess some think they would have been close at the 1980 Olympics, it is purely a guess really though.
    B/G were the 1st US World Champs in Pairs since '50 and the Olympics were going to be on US home-turf the next season. They would go head-to-head against an aging R/Z at the height of the Cold War. I agree that they never had a real rivalry and a lot of it was media-hype, but I do recall that B/G had beefed up their technical content for the Olympic season [ex - throw 2x into SBS 2x's] so there was that outside shot, and what type of shape would a 31-yr. old Rodnina show up in was another point of conjecture...But if anything, there is no way though that politik would've permitted B/G to defeat R/Z

  11. #51
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    I'm surprised the Witt/Thomas rivalry didn't garner more votes. "The Dueling Carmens" were one of the highlights of the 1988 Winter Olympics.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    B/G were the 1st US World Champs in Pairs since '50 and the Olympics were going to be on US home-turf the next season. They would go head-to-head against an aging R/Z at the height of the Cold War. I agree that they never had a real rivalry and a lot of it was media-hype, but I do recall that B/G had beefed up their technical content for the Olympic season [ex - throw 2x into SBS 2x's] so there was that outside shot, and what type of shape would a 31-yr. old Rodnina show up in was another point of conjecture...But if anything, there is no way though that politik would've permitted B/G to defeat R/Z
    I guess what I meant is by the time B/G had improved enough to legitimately challenge R/Z (politiks aside) they unfortunately never met head to head. Teams didnt do many other events back then. And R/Z took the 78-79 season off so they didnt meet then, and their only scheduled meeting of the 79-80 season never happened at the Games (and both didnt do Worlds). So the rivalry was something that never really happened. B/G's best finish before 79 was a 3rd place finish at the 78 Worlds so they obviously werent rivalling the unbeatable Rodnina & Zaitsev at that point yet.

    Since R/Z didnt do throw jumps, and since B/G had far better choreography they probably could have beaten them at the 1980 Games under fair judging (which of course it wouldnt have been probably, especialy as it wasnt in any discipline at those Games). R/Z on the other hand have so much amazing speed and power though and such amazing lifts and strong side by side jumps.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    I'm surprised the Witt/Thomas rivalry didn't garner more votes. "The Dueling Carmens" were one of the highlights of the 1988 Winter Olympics.
    IMHO That (despite having two great skate offs the two previous seasons) was such an anti-climax. Manley and Ito completely took them both to town.

    B&S and S&P - ended in the anti-climax of both winning the OGM and the respective fans of each saying our team is the real winner 9 years later

    Another and IMHO even crueler one that was mentioned as a rivalry (although not on this poll) was Kwan vs. Slutskaya which ended in the anti-climax of neither becoming Olympic Champion.

    I voted Yags vs. Plush

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    I'm surprised the Witt/Thomas rivalry didn't garner more votes. "The Dueling Carmens" were one of the highlights of the 1988 Winter Olympics.
    How could that be considered one of the highlights when neither Witt nor Thomas skated well in their respective LPs ?

  15. #55
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    It's interesting... Witt actually completed all her planned content in her 1988 Olympic LP yet the general consensus was that she skated well below par.. Perhaps the audience's compartively subdued reaction in comparison to Ito created this impression?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    It's interesting... Witt actually completed all her planned content in her 1988 Olympic LP yet the general consensus was that she skated well below par.. Perhaps the audience's compartively subdued reaction in comparison to Ito created this impression?
    Wasn't the double loop supposed to be a triple?

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    Quote Originally Posted by meggonzo View Post
    Wasn't the double loop supposed to be a triple?
    Witt never planned a 3Lp, but she could do it. Right after the freeskate at 1987 Worlds, Thomas commented that she did not even know Witt had a 3Lp until the freeskate. Witt had not been doing it in practice all week but put it in because she knew she could win if she landed the 3Lp but was going to place the same if she did a 2Lp or fell on a 3Lp.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    It's interesting... Witt actually completed all her planned content in her 1988 Olympic LP yet the general consensus was that she skated well below par.. Perhaps the audience's compartively subdued reaction in comparison to Ito created this impression?
    It might also have to do with the minute or so of skating on two feet in the middle of the program. Still, I think people expected Witt to do the 3loop, judges included based on her performance at Worlds in '87, it was the Olympics after all. So regardless of whether or not she ever had any intention of doing it, the double loop was a disappointment.

    I also got the sense that Witt was disappointed with herself based on her reaction, perhaps she wasn't but an ecstactic response by a skater after a great performance goes a long way in sending the message to an audience how to respond (as evidenced by Witt in '87 and Manley and Ito in '88). Witt was rather subdued at the end of her LP and the audience sensed it.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Since R/Z didnt do throw jumps, and since B/G had far better choreography they probably could have beaten them at the 1980 Games under fair judging (which of course it wouldnt have been probably, especialy as it wasnt in any discipline at those Games). R/Z on the other hand have so much amazing speed and power though and such amazing lifts and strong side by side jumps.
    Yes. Comparing them was apples to oranges - R/Z creamed them on their strong points; lifts, speed, split triple twist, but B/G did things R/Z didn't bother with at all- throw jumps. But I don't think throw jumps were obligatory though because TT would've put them in the program. As far as I can tell, the SBS jumps were similar for the 2 pairs.

    At any rate, I think a split panel in either direction would've shown fair judging, but who really knows what would've happened. I just now doubt that the politik at the time would've permitted a B/G win regardless. The Soviets had a stranglehold on Pairs

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    It might also have to do with the minute or so of skating on two feet in the middle of the program. Still, I think people expected Witt to do the 3loop, judges included based on her performance at Worlds in '87, it was the Olympics after all. So regardless of whether or not she ever had any intention of doing it, the double loop was a disappointment.

    I also got the sense that Witt was disappointed with herself based on her reaction, perhaps she wasn't but an ecstactic response by a skater after a great performance goes a long way in sending the message to an audience how to respond (as evidenced by Witt in '87 and Manley and Ito in '88). Witt was rather subdued at the end of her LP and the audience sensed it.
    Yes. The 1:16 in the middle of the program where Witt did nothing but vamp, as well as the more front-loaded jump layout and the lack of anything harder than a 3t or 3s, showed that the 'Carmen' program was more poorly constructed and easier than the WSS program of the previous year.

    I think Witt was expected to do at least a 3L. I remember commentators talking about an ambitious program from her at the '87 NHK competition

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I think Anissina & Peizerat vs Fusar Poli & Margalio was a big rivalry in dance in the early 2000s.
    A rivalry made by the judges. IMO, FP&M as World champ is a joke. Anissina&Peizerat were superior in every aspect !

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