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  1. #1

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    Boogying Butryskaya (94 Euros SP)

    I found this clip of her SP from 94 Euros and just had to post because I am sure others will like it as well. Loved the energy and attack. Plus the voidy version of Phantom with the bird calls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmjp4czOEp4&NR=1

    The Finnish judge gave her first place above Baiul.

    Here is Baiul's SP.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRoVqkISQEQ

    I think even with a mistake on the combo Baiul was probably the better performance. Artistically it had so much detail and worked with the music.

    Still really enjoyed both of these.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    Loved this....Markova actually finished 3rd in this competition with Butyrskaya 4th....but, NO RUSSIAN WOMEN could go to the Olympics a month later!! Pathetic qualifying rules from the ISU
    Last edited by poths; 01-07-2011 at 02:53 PM.

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    I know sometimes I make outrageous statements, but seriously:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POcVj...eature=related
    ^^^That's her LP at these championships. She finished 4th....She should have WON.
    It was her best ever skate IMHO
    All of the triples are cleaner than Baiul's, I prefer the pace of the program, better spins, MITF and more mature. JMHO
    With these performances she could have medalled at Lillehamer. I think it's clear the Russian fed sold her out for Markova and IIRC it took a few years for them to give her back their support (having favoured Slutskaya post 1995).

    People always said Butyrskaya was but honestly, she had a disaster worlds debut in 1993 and a horrific LP at 1995 Euros (who didn't) but aside from that, she always got it together at the majors.

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    I remember this competition so well. Markova and Bute were the clear standouts for me. Surya landed everything but was, well, Surya and Oksana wasn't in great jumping form here at all. I have to say I probably agree with Poths on this one. It would be very interesting to see this comp judged under CoP. I'm sure the result would be very different. It's just a tragedy they couldn't go to Lillehammer.

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    I don't remember seeing Butyrskaya skate with such abandon. It's really impressive and unfortunate that she wasn't able to sustain that intensity and freedom throughout, but at least she won Worlds in 99. From that performance, she looked headed for a world title sooner.

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    I know I must have asked this before, but I'm assuming there was no last chance qualifying competition for the 1994 Olympics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by poths View Post
    Loved this....Markova actually finished 3rd in this competition with Butyrskaya 4th....but, NO RUSSIAN WOMEN could go to the Olympics a month later!! Pathetic qualifying rules from the ISU
    LOVE Markova, can't put my finger on it, I just do...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    I know I must have asked this before, but I'm assuming there was no last chance qualifying competition for the 1994 Olympics?
    I don't think there was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    I don't think there was.
    I'm pretty sure the russian ladies situation at the 1994 Olympics was indeed the impetus to hold such winter qualification events

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    Maria was my first ever favorite lady skater, much more than Kwan or Slutskaya. with the pass of time, i developed a soft spot for Irina even though she wasn't a very musical skater but Maria remains my favorite Russian lady of all time.
    She was really voidy here, but I actually love her exquisite choreographies she had later. She wasn't that much appreciated by the american media, I feel...but in europe she was beloved

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    Maria's skating was so much smoother pre 1997. She really got down into her knees better. I wonder what happened after 96 becuase her skating stiffened up so much. The difference between her Malaguena program from 96 to 97 is obvious.

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    Here is Baiul's FS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmcMo5uImA

    And here is Markova

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT57QERvqa0

    And for good measure I have thrown in Bonaly

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnw1RsxVxeQ

    Interesting to rewatch all of these. Maria should have at least been on the podium with that performance, but it might have come down to the stronger technical mark. I still don't get why Bonaly was always placed as high as she was because even the spins were not that great - they travelled and didn't really flow. And her skating skills, apart from the speed, was really poor.

    Actually the strongest in terms of skating stills was Markova. Really beautiful edges and transitions galore. Although technically in terms of jumps she was the weakest of the bunch.

    Maria's skating skills were okay, but on her forward crossovers she was ploddy - no lightness. But she did have good control.

    Baiul, whilst she probably used the music most effectively, actually did a lot of it standing in the one spot. It was a very clever program in that they used the changes in the music to enhance that.

    Just highlights how different things were under 6.0 compared to IJS. Because if that was judged using IJS I am sure it would have been a different result.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    It irritates me that Oksana was botching the combo in the SP during the whole 93-94 season, yet the judges kept on saving room for her and giving her inflated scores.

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    Just seen how fecked up the ordinals were

    Markova was last to skate ..

    her ordinals were:

    6 3 4 2 5 3 4 4 3

    In essence, more had her off the podium than on. One had her 6th, one had her 2nd!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by poths View Post
    I know sometimes I make outrageous statements, but seriously:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POcVj...eature=related
    ^^^That's her LP at these championships. She finished 4th....She should have WON.
    It was her best ever skate IMHO
    All of the triples are cleaner than Baiul's, I prefer the pace of the program, better spins, MITF and more mature. JMHO
    With these performances she could have medalled at Lillehamer. I think it's clear the Russian fed sold her out for Markova and IIRC it took a few years for them to give her back their support (having favoured Slutskaya post 1995).

    People always said Butyrskaya was but honestly, she had a disaster worlds debut in 1993 and a horrific LP at 1995 Euros (who didn't) but aside from that, she always got it together at the majors.
    Yes, sucky reputation judging at its 6.0 worst. This would be the story of Masha's career though. She is perhaps arguably the most wuzrobbed ladies singles skater in history. judges!

  16. #16

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    This was all before my time...what where the olympic qualification rules back then and when did they change?

    Completely off topic but I've also always wondered why there where only 2 men at 1998 Olympic for russia when Yagudin and Kulik finished 3rd and 5th at worlds the year before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_T_T_ View Post
    This was all before my time...what where the olympic qualification rules back then and when did they change?

    Completely off topic but I've also always wondered why there where only 2 men at 1998 Olympic for Russia when Yagudin and Kulik finished 3rd and 5th at worlds the year before.
    Butyrskaya and Russia 1994 spot was lost at 1993 Worlds where Maria finished 34th ..I don't believe she even skated the FP.
    Olympic spots were drawn solely from 1993 Worlds top placements..no secondary Q

    At 1997 Worlds Urmanov started the competition ( I believe he was 1st in the SP) and withdrew with a groin injury during the FP warmup, IIRC. That was the intro year for qualifying next year's team based on a formula for placements that is still in existence today. Trouble was they charged you points for the 3rd skater, once the competition had started and Urmanov's points must have taken them too low to Q 3 people.
    Later..they dropped the points charged for the 3rd entry so you could send a developmental skater and not have it hurt you.
    I believe that Dan Hollander's placement at 1997 Worlds also cost USA a 3rd spot in 1998

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    Ah I see, thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I found this clip of her SP from 94 Euros and just had to post because I am sure others will like it as well. Loved the energy and attack. Plus the voidy version of Phantom with the bird calls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmjp4czOEp4&NR=1
    This was almost the exact music that Czako used in her LP in 94 I believe it was. THAT program, while it had good jumps, was an artistic disaster. Nice to see what real choreo looked like to that music.

    I liked the layback in this program. Better attempt at what was usually a bad element for her.

    I found that yes there was a little more speed and attack in the program, helped by the demands on the music. But, in her upper body and face you can see the tension, so I wouldn't say there was much abandon here. My interpretation is that she tried to improve her skating maturity to get her second mark up as the years went on. This made her look stiffer as she tried to be more controlled and mature vs. what judges might have seen as a bit hokey in this program. So I'm not completely convinced that her skating went to much further south as the years went on. The hints of her discomfort were always there in my mind.

  20. #20
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    When it comes to Baiul I have to say her 94 programs in general left me furious. First, her short was an absolute classic and one of the best SPs I can remember from women (spins not super great and f/w could have used a little more variety but I'm overlooking for now). I'd have that program artistically at least 0.3 above any other program coming out of the gate. What irritates me was that she won the gold in Lillehammer so we never got to see more of this. Further, this ultra-sophisticated short made her LP look dated and immature. I consequently would have marked this one way down.

    And, yes, the USFSA used her LP in judging seminars after 1994 to explain why you should mark programs down. There was a calculation of about 90 seconds of the program (I forget exactly how much) where she stood or danced in place. On a related note they used Petrenko's 92 LP similarly to show why a record number of crosscuts does not a great program make.

    Now for Markova and Butyrskaya. I think judges favored much more classical styles and music back then and particularly techno for women wasn't as readily embraced. I don't think it helped that in my mind Maria and Olga were virtually clones of each other based on how they skated, the music they chose, even how they did their hair. Maria's costume looked way out of place in relation to the music. Olga lined up her look, music and choreo much better....so she was the better clone. I think their styles put them in the second tier right out of the gate and no doubt their marks were also affected by a downgrading in the overall Brand of Russian women who were not worthy (based on the rules) of competing at the Olympics.

    I think Maria moved up over the years because of her consistently decent skates, addition of a full complement of triples and programs/packaging that were a little less left-of-center

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