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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    About Gerboldt/Enbert, Arthur Drmitriev jr. By Andrey Simonenko

    AS: Are you worried they might get star-sickness?

    AD: No. What am I here for? If needed - I can put them back on the ground and fast. Within half an hour, I'd say

    Love this bit. Good interview. Thanks for posting it

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Where did that come from? That's not what he says at all.
    I'm referring to this part, but of course the rest is just my opinion.

    AS: How did you take his parting with Mishin and moving to Buyanova?

    AD: Badly. Really badly. I think one doesn't betray his coach, especially such a coach as Mishin. But that's my personal opinion.

    AS: Did you try to talk him out?

    AD: Yes, I did, but, unfortunately, it was too late. It was decided by my ex-wife (Tatiana Druchinina) and him. I couldn't defer the decision.

  3. #23

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    I have always liked Artur (Sr.) and I appreciate everything he said about his skaters. Interesting stuff. I have to give Artur Jr. points for his choice not to comment publicly on the reasons for his coaching change - very diplomatic and in the end, perhaps very practical too. A good choice that his Dad might have mirrored but I think we're seeing some personal resentments from Senior toward his ex-wife played out here and that's sort of sad - being someone who has been divorced with kids involved, it's always good not to squish the kids in the middle.
    Last edited by Willowway; 01-03-2011 at 11:54 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Such nonsense! That's not at all how the judges saw it at the Nationals. I only saw the LPs yet, but B/L skated as cleanly as they ever have in their lives, while G/E had a crashed twist, completely botched SBS 3salchows and two iffy lift mounts and they were still only 7 points below B/L in the LP!

    B/L have to make just one mistake - which they are perfectly capable of - and Gerbolt just has to rotate - not land - her salchow and the difference would vanish even if G/E made as many mistakes elsewhere.

    I only hope Enbert doesn't lose too much training with this military service thing and they show Dmitriev!
    I'm not sure what you saw in B/L free skate but it was not their best outing, as a matter fact it wasn't a great skate for either pair. Both made mistakes and B/L were ahead by 13 points, that is quite a bit to make up, it won’t be easy and it won’t happen overnight I don’t think he is being mean he is being realistic.

    Neither Katerina or Alexander have great skating skills to begin with so they are going to need time to develope them; they are not V/T by any stretch of the imagination and he knows that.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Neither Katerina or Alexander have great skating skills to begin with so they are going to need time to develope them; they are not V/T by any stretch of the imagination and he knows that.
    Nobody is comparing them to V/T, who are in another class. Actually, if V/T progress at this rate none of the current Russian pairs will be comparable to V/T.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedge View Post
    Google mechanical translates one piece of text this way.
    I wonder if that is really what he meant or if it means "a lot of interesting couples all of them different".

    I look forward to your translation Tabkha
    LOL at google mechanical translator
    I assumed google misused "to like" with "be like." He said "in Russia we have many pairs that are different (are not similar, are not like) from each other."
    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    As a mediocrity myself I wish I were encouraged and had my self esteem built by the system education. I was fortunate enough to have a supportive family, so when the education system and the sport system of the USSR treated me like shit I didn't end up being broken and thinking I'm useless at the age of 6. Am sure you would love to have that happening to you.
    I am sure you had other skills, in spheres other than sport. Nothing wrong with that: being a mediocrity in one field but having a talent in another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    It may be sometimes useful to use that direct style towards your students or your children, but I can't see any positive outcome of making such comments to the media. Figure skating is a judged sport, perceptions are important.
    Yeah, like with those e-mails from one judge about someone's transitions... gosh forgot his name...

    As for Artur, he was giving an interview to the Russian media. In that culture Fatherhood counts first, politics and coach-hood second. He is first of all the father who is talking about his son. And the father CAN be direct to or about his son. Mentality is not universal.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    Would you just love it if it was about you? Shall we see?
    Sure, lay it on me! As long as it's factual and not rude. There's a difference that not everyone understands.

    example:

    "you are not a talented skater" = fact (potentially)
    "you are an idiot" = rude (no point to the comment other than to be hurtful and contains no information deemed to be fact)

    that kinda thing...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    As a mediocrity myself I wish I were encouraged and had my self esteem built by the system education. I was fortunate enough to have a supportive family, so when the education system and the sport system of the USSR treated me like shit I didn't end up being broken and thinking I'm useless at the age of 6. Am sure you would love to have that happening to you.
    Oh I believe in support and building self esteem...except I favor being more realistic. I tend to see two approaches to this.

    The first I find more common. We try to tell people/kids that they are awesome at something when they actually aren't. Sure they end up having strong self esteem but unfortunately an unrealistic picture of their talents and abilities.

    This leads me to the second school of thought, which is mine. I believe everyone has some sort of talent and ability while similarly they lack talent and ability in other areas. My philosophy is to -- where it's my place -- help people realize where they have limitations. In short I feel it's ok to diplomatically tell someone they suck at something...but that's all ok because we all do. I'm not about convincing them they are great and special if they are not. This is what's missing right now as we overcompensate under the guise of building self esteem so we create unrealistic perceptions.

    I see this in the work place a lot, so I'm left having to sit 25 year olds down and point out their development areas because no one ever does. I'm direct about it so they know what they're not great at (I share all the positives, too). I provide examples and then I work with them on a plan to improve. On occasion I have had to sit some of them down after a period and tell them they are not going to succeed in this line of work so they should look at exploring their talents in other areas. In all cases but one I got great feedback that I pointed out things that no one ever did and they felt their life and work would benefit from my generous, direct and insightful feedback. Throughout my career I have had consistently strong feedback (documented) from subordinates.

    So, it's about being imperfect and being ok with it, not convincing people of something that's not true because you don't want to make them sad.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock2 View Post
    "you are not a talented skater" = fact (potentially)
    Yes, if that is true, that is one thing, provided, of course, that the speaker IS telling the truth and is not simply mistaken.

    But IME, there is an entire philsopophy of teaching that has nothing to do with "truth," but rather with using abuse to drive students, which I believe is more what TAHbKA was talking about. The method actually works well with perfectionists, who will drive themselves to their limits to eliminate their flaws, if by well you mean pushing talent to the limit. But the system destroys many, including a lot of very talented people who would thrive under other systems, and often exacerbates the neuroses of the perfectionists with devastating personal results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock2 View Post
    So, it's about being imperfect and being ok with it, not convincing people of something that's not true because you don't want to make them sad.
    Experiences vary; I have never come across this sort of thing except in a very narrow slice of the middle class. I HEAR about this a lot, but I just don't see much of it. Whatever we may experience personally, even a brief glance at a few stats will tell you that there are far more abused and neglected children in the US and elsewhere than there are spoiled hothouse flowers. As an educator, I see a lot more students who are stressed out by expectations than I do students who think they are fabulous just because. This is not to say I never see the latter, just that I don't see much of them. That's because I don't see just successes (people who graduate and get jobs), but also failures (people who don't graduate and don't get jobs). I see far more students who consider themselves stupid, who think they can't succeed, who have no faith in themselves at all because they have always been told the "truth" about themselves by helpful people who want to make sure they don't get swelled heads, than I do students who think we should be grateful just to experience their nearness. And some of those students who consider themselves stupid quite frankly are. But some of them aren't; the "helpful" people were mistaken (or, often, cruel), and the damage done by their "honesty" is great.

    Most of the students I see--and again, this is just personal experience here and it would be a fallacy to consider my personal experiences some sort of measuring stick for the entire country--seem to me to be quite aware of the fact that they have flaws and have pretty balanced views of themselves, although they are young and so usually limited in experience.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock2
    So, it's about being imperfect and being ok with it, not convincing people of something that's not true because you don't want to make them sad.
    The point I intend on making is that most parents don't give their children a pair of rose-colored glasses and tell them that they excell in something that they really don't excell in. The child would be devastated when reality hit and feel like a complete failure. Most parents try and help their children to discover what they do excell in and go from there.

    I'm not saying that it isn't done, but where I come from (in my neck of the woods), children aren't given false hopes and dreams to depend upon.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  11. #31

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    It is also very different to tell a 25-year-old they are not good- or talented- at something, and to tell that to a 6, 12, 16-year-old. The margin of error and possible damage are much greater when evaluating children. Especially if doing something is a child's dream.
    Last edited by dinakt; 01-04-2011 at 08:12 PM.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  12. #32

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    In that culture Fatherhood counts first, politics and coach-hood second. He is first of all the father who is talking about his son. And the father CAN be direct to or about his son. Mentality is not universal.
    I find this comment a little confusing - at least from an American point of view. I agree that fatherhood comes first. A smart dad would deal with his son and maybe with his ex-wife and most likely, keep it in the family.

    I don't know how criticizing his son in public shows that Artur is putting fatherhood first; actually, I think it shows something else altogether - that Artur is caught in a bad family situation where he is (for whatever reason) a great distance from his son and not in the position of having a father's influence. That's sad but as we might say here "airing his dirty laundry" (the problems of his family) doesn't really benefit any of them. Rather it gives Artur Sr. a little opportunity to vent or take a dig - that's all. Better to stay quiet in public and put one's efforts privately into making the situation better.
    Last edited by Willowway; 01-04-2011 at 08:06 PM.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Yes, if that is true, that is one thing, provided, of course, that the speaker IS telling the truth and is not simply mistaken.

    But IME, there is an entire philsopophy of teaching that has nothing to do with "truth," but rather with using abuse to drive students, which I believe is more what TAHbKA was talking about. The method actually works well with perfectionists, who will drive themselves to their limits to eliminate their flaws, if by well you mean pushing talent to the limit. But the system destroys many, including a lot of very talented people who would thrive under other systems, and often exacerbates the neuroses of the perfectionists with devastating personal results.



    Experiences vary; I have never come across this sort of thing except in a very narrow slice of the middle class. I HEAR about this a lot, but I just don't see much of it. Whatever we may experience personally, even a brief glance at a few stats will tell you that there are far more abused and neglected children in the US and elsewhere than there are spoiled hothouse flowers. As an educator, I see a lot more students who are stressed out by expectations than I do students who think they are fabulous just because. This is not to say I never see the latter, just that I don't see much of them. That's because I don't see just successes (people who graduate and get jobs), but also failures (people who don't graduate and don't get jobs). I see far more students who consider themselves stupid, who think they can't succeed, who have no faith in themselves at all because they have always been told the "truth" about themselves by helpful people who want to make sure they don't get swelled heads, than I do students who think we should be grateful just to experience their nearness. And some of those students who consider themselves stupid quite frankly are. But some of them aren't; the "helpful" people were mistaken (or, often, cruel), and the damage done by their "honesty" is great.

    Most of the students I see--and again, this is just personal experience here and it would be a fallacy to consider my personal experiences some sort of measuring stick for the entire country--seem to me to be quite aware of the fact that they have flaws and have pretty balanced views of themselves, although they are young and so usually limited in experience.
    I totally agree with this. I am not an educator but my experience with young people is more like Prancer's than Rock2's. Also, despite cultural differences, I don't believe coddlying the young is a specific American or Canadian trait. My father's family came fromt the Middle East & their kids were more pampered than any of the Anglo-Americans I knew. Besides, the US & Canada are melting pots, thus there is no "normal".

  14. #34
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    If Artur were a world class gymnast would we be having this discussion?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    If Artur were a world class gymnast would we be having this discussion?
    No, because this is a figure skating forum.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    No, because this is a figure skating forum.
    Let me clarify , people seem to be coming down hard on dad for the way he treats his son but I'm sure his mom is just as hard on him as well, she just doesn't grant interviews. She is a world class athelete herself, maybe she is no stranger to being hard on her atheletes as well as her own kid.

    I'm sure Jr. had his reasons for changing coaches, I guess he didn't want to be second best.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    No, because this is a figure skating forum.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Let me clarify , people seem to be coming down hard on dad for the way he treats his son but I'm sure his mom is just as hard on him as well, she just doesn't grant interviews.
    Um, people are coming down on Artur for what he said in an interview because it is such a public forum. Since the mother doesn't grant interviews, people can't exactly come down hard on her for the same thing.

    It has nothing to do with the sport and everything to do with commenting on what seems to many to be a personal issue. And yes, I DO think people would be coming down on her if she said the same thing and Artur Jr. were in gymnastics instead of skating.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  19. #39

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    Well I found Artur's switching pretty shocking because his dad works for Moskvina's camp and Mishin/Moskvina are extremely tight. Perhaps Artur is trying to protect his own interests by publically saying it was his wife/son's decision. I'm on two minds about this, one is my feeling that a father should always protect his child. But the other is that young Artur isn't really that much of a child anymore.

    I think that Artur Sr could have probably said he wasn't a fan of the break up in a better way, if he really felt the need to comment whatsover. I find comments like betraying coach etc to be a bit much. If the coaching relationship wasn't working for Artur it wasn't working, and I do seem to recall that there WERE some coaching switches back in the USSR.

    As for what system is better, I'm kind of different minds about things. I actually am not so sure if its so horrible for a child to have to try out for things, and not make certain groups. I remember when I was little my brother and I tried out for a special choir, I made it, he didn't. In other cases we'd try out for speaking parts in plays, he made those, I didn't. We were pretty young than and neither of us ended up really emotionally damaged.

    This being said of course if a child has already been part of a group and then is taken out of the group that can be damaging. And also there has to be opportunities for "normal" kids as well because not every child is going to have an amazing athletic, musical, artistic talent.

    I think a lot depends on parents. If parents make the child being part of a particular group etc, into a big deal than the kid will really feel the rejection. I think a mixed system is probably the best system. A system where people can fund their way if they want, but the talented and who can't afford can also get funding.

  20. #40
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    How old is Jr. by the way?

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