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  1. #21
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    I loved how hilariously generic Mueller's pupils were. For example, in 1989 Lang and Grossmann skated to the same cut of music Poetszch used back in the late 1970s. Even the choreography was similar.

    Off all Frau Mueller's students, Sonya Morgenstern was my favourite. Her free skate at the 1972 European Championships is one I can watch over and over.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    I loved how hilariously generic Mueller's pupils were.
    IIRC Toller Cranston once said they she seemed to train the same female skater over and over again. Witt was the only one really able to project her own personality.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    IIRC Toller Cranston once said they she seemed to train the same female skater over and over again. Witt was the only one really able to project her own personality.
    I agree with essence_of_soy that Morgenstern was pretty fabulous but she also was the first of those clones that Frau Muller created. Morgenstern morphed into Marion Weber who turned into Poetszch etc. Then came Genzel, Witt, Grossmann & Lang. Imagine how many more there were who never made it out of GDR Nationals!!

    The wierdest thing has been that Seyfert never skated anything like any of the girls that came after her IMO.

  4. #24

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    Very special:

    Janet Lynn 1968 Olympics - at the microphone: Eva Pawlik
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jukiKL0di58

    Janet was 14!

  5. #25
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    I recall that Mueller's students were even known to recycle the same dresses... There is footage of Evelyn Grossmann wearing a long program dress that both Witt and Poetszch wore earlier

  6. #26
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    Based on the height, I would guess the jump at 7:57-7:58 is the 3Lp.
    1968 was the year of her "successful" 3loop attempt, not 1967. The jump at 7.57 is too clean and easy-looking.

  7. #27
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    Seyfert did triple loop at both 1968 and '69 Europeans apparently. The 1968 one was on youtube for a while but it seems the user has sadly removed the video. It was very cheated but still exciting to see.

  8. #28
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    I always thought Seyfert looked similar to Witt in a way. She looks like she had similar charisma, attack, and confidence on the ice, without neccessarily being the pretty ballerina with beautiful extensions and toepoint like Janet Lynn or Caryn Kadavy, and she seemed like an athletic leader for her time too.

  9. #29

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    Jutta Muller retired after Evelyn Grossman dropped out, which was just a year or two after the reunification of the two Germanys. I read somewhere that she had problems with her eyes, having had several eye operations. Witt helped her financially and may still do so.

  10. #30
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    Gaby Seyfert looked quite muscular, like a 60s prototype of Joannie Rochette with big jumps! Peggy was more slim and ballerina-like. Hana Maskova looked like she had a naturally amazing talent for jumps, too - big, high, etc.

  11. #31
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    Seyfert was a lovely skater, should have won the FS in Grenoble over Fleming. I would argue she had it all over Fleming who I think is THE most over-rated skater in history.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Seyfert was a lovely skater, should have won the FS in Grenoble over Fleming. I would argue she had it all over Fleming who I think is THE most over-rated skater in history.
    My understanding was that Peggy was amazing in the Figures. She also won 1st place votes from all 9 judges overall after the Free Skate, so it wasn't like it was a close competition

  13. #33
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    Back then the free skating was like a victory gap. I agree Fleming was vastly overrated as a free skater but Seyfert couldnt have beaten her even if she had easily won the free skating. Looking at points Fleming seems even more dominant than Schuba was in figures, and her free skating is obviously alot better than Schuba.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Back then the free skating was like a victory gap. I agree Fleming was vastly overrated as a free skater but Seyfert couldnt have beaten her even if she had easily won the free skating. Looking at points Fleming seems even more dominant than Schuba was in figures, and her free skating is obviously alot better than Schuba.
    Peggy was graceful and had the whole complement of jumps [2x on down - which was everything in the 60s] unlike Schuba. She also did a 2l-2l combo which was good stuff back then

  15. #35

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    Peggy Fleming 1968 US Championships:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdPKgg8SGys

    This was one of her best competitive performances.

  16. #36
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    I still prefer Seyfert to Fleming as a free skater though. I understand though with figures there is no way Seyfert could have beaten her.

  17. #37
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    I should clarify what I meant, which is that I think that as a freeskater Fleming was overrated. I recall seeing Seyfert's FS from Grenoble and it wasn't great, but it was better than Fleming's. Of course as was stated above, the FS was just a victory lap for Peg, but I argue on principle that regardless of final placing Seyfert should've finished first in that portion of the competition. If memory serves correct, Gaby's '69 FS was the real masterpiece (used to be online). She's truly an underrated great, in my mind, much the superior of her much lauded successors Poetzch (well no one thinks her fs was great) and Witt.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    My understanding was that Peggy was amazing in the Figures. She also won 1st place votes from all 9 judges overall after the Free Skate, so it wasn't like it was a close competition
    Actually, one judge placed Seyfert first in the FS. But another one placed her sixth!

    http://www.sports-reference.com/olym...e-skating.html

    I watched Seyfert's Grenoble FS and some of her other programs a few months ago when they were on Youtube. I liked her a lot, but to say she was a better free skater than Fleming would be a stretch.

    On a different, related note, why is Seyfert's "triple loop" at 1968 Worlds credited as the first triple loop by a woman, when Surya Bonaly was never credited with a quadruple salchow? As far as I can see from the videos, Bonaly's 4S was no more underrotated than Seyfert's 3R. Indeed, it was less underrotated, if it was underrotated at all.

  19. #39

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    I can't resist sharing these:

    Janet Lynn 1972 US Nationals filmed by Howard Craker

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nAx6VeScsg

    Janet Lynn 1973 US Nationals filmed by Howard Craker

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR15rloAB0s

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squibble View Post
    On a different, related note, why is Seyfert's "triple loop" at 1968 Worlds credited as the first triple loop by a woman, when Surya Bonaly was never credited with a quadruple salchow? As far as I can see from the videos, Bonaly's 4S was no more underrotated than Seyfert's 3R. Indeed, it was less underrotated, if it was underrotated at all.
    Perhaps, p-o-l-i-t-i-k

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