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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karina1974 View Post
    Here's an excerpt from Katarina's book, Only With Passion:


    And another quote:
    Thank you for the book quotes!

    I'm glad Frau Muller got her revenge on that English coach. That was a very mean thing to say about the East German skaters. No class.

  2. #62

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    I'm kind of shocked that a Brit, Megan Taylor no less, would or even could live in East Germany in the 50s or 60s to the point that I would suspect she was a spy. Coaches crossing Cold War borders was not done unless coaches were defecting from a communist country to a capitalist country.

    Megan was the last World Champion prior to WWII. She won in Prague just before Hitler invaded, and the invasion was so eminent that Megan's main rival, Cecelia Colledge, would not go, which was surprising because Cecelia had already beaten Megan at both the British Championships and European Championships that season although Megan was the reigning World Champion.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-08-2011 at 04:51 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I'm kind of shocked that a Brit, Megan Taylor no less, would or even could live in East Germany in the 50s or 60s to the point that I would suspect she was a spy. Coaches crossing Cold War borders was not done unless coaches were defecting from a communist country to a capitalist country.

    Megan was the last World Champion prior to WWII. She won in Prague just before Hitler invaded, and the invasion was so eminent that Megan's main rival, Cecelia Colledge, would not go, which was surprising because Cecelia had already beaten Megan at both the British Championships and European Championships that season although Megan was the reigning World Champion.
    It is pretty surprizing. I remember being rather shocked when I heard in a tv interview many years ago Whoopi Goldberg, an American, mentioning she had lived for a time in East Germany, and all but implied that it wasn't so bad behind the Iron Curtain-or Berlin Wall as it were. I guess the East German authorities made exceptions.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    My understanding was that Peggy was amazing in the Figures. She also won 1st place votes from all 9 judges overall after the Free Skate, so it wasn't like it was a close competition
    I was a young teenager when Peggy won the OGM so I've seen most of her career. I think she had the mental toughness of Katarina Witt and Sonia Henie. She just always could do what it took to win. In all of her years in the public eye you never saw her have a meltdown or give in to pressure. She also had a saavy manager (Fassi) and a dedicated skating mom. Plus I suspect her public image is close to who she really is.

    Skating-wise I would compare her to Alissa Czisny. The beautiful flow, posture and musicality. Peggy dropped jumping as soon as she could. I have tapes of her skating with John Curry and Toller Cranston - no jumps on her part. She was criticized for this, but they kept inviting her to skate with them.

    She definitely had a make-over between 1960 and 1964 (and a nose job) if you compare pictures. Tina Noyes was the better-looking of the 2 in 1960.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I was a young teenager when Peggy won the OGM so I've seen most of her career. I think she had the mental toughness of Katarina Witt and Sonia Henie. She just always could do what it took to win. In all of her years in the public eye you never saw her have a meltdown or give in to pressure.
    Oh I think her sub-par 1968 Olympic freeskate was very much due to pressure. She didn't fall and it wasn't what we would call a meltdown but bearing in mind the jump content of the day and the errors she made - that's pressure right there. That and her freeskate at the 1965 North Americans which Dick Button mentions in the 1965 Worlds broadcast were probably the worst of her whole career.

  6. #66
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    You have to wonder where she found the pressure from though. I undrestand there being pressure in being such a heavy favorite, especialy as an American. However she had such a huge lead after figures that even if Gaby Seyfert had gotten all 6.0s in her free skate Fleming probably would have only needed 5.0s and 5.1s (maybe less, I havent calculated exactly) to win. And as we see the judges were willing to give her almost all 5.9s even for a mediocre skate with about 4 mistakes. Maybe it was pressure on herself to want to have the skate of her life at the Olympics and have people remember that, like the skate she had at U.S Nationals that same year which she didnt even come close to.

    The only women favorites or co favorites who probably skated their best at the Olympics though were Hamill in 76, Fratianne in 1980, Lipinski in 98, and Kim in 2010. Even legendary skaters like Witt (in 84 and 88) and Yamaguchi won the Olympics with performances below even their personal average performance level. And with Ito and Harding 4th and 6th after the short program Kristi had no real pressure on her anymore either, she pretty much only had to land 3 triples to be certain of winning overall, yet she was still tense as a drum.

  7. #67
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    Fratianne didn't skate her best in 1980, she skated well but it wasn't her seasons best (that would be worlds that year). But given Poetzsch's lead in figures (and relatively good LP though she was better at Euros) I don't know if that would have won her the gold either.

    Witt in 84 hadn't won anything beyond euros and so her performance ws good enough. Her 88 oly LP wasn't very impressive (by Witt standards).

    Yamaguchi won in 92 with one of the worst LPs of her career.

  8. #68
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    I find Yamaguchi's poor skate (for her standards) in 92 baffling. Surely she wasnt worried about "4 triple LP" Kerrigan or Bonaly who was incredibly rough at that point of her development. Harding being in 6th after the short program, jet lagged, very overweight, and sliding out of any momentum or favor was pretty certain to not stir anything up amongst the forumal at top. So Ito was the only worry but Ito 4th after the short program had no chance of catching her even if she beat Kristi in the LP. So you wonder where the pressure came from, kind of like you wonder where it came from for Fleming in 68. Was it the desire for a personal best performance at the Olympics for both women.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Fratianne didn't skate her best in 1980, she skated well but it wasn't her seasons best (that would be worlds that year). But given Poetzsch's lead in figures (and relatively good LP though she was better at Euros) I don't know if that would have won her the gold either.
    Fratianne won the short in Lake Placid, and was second in the free. I thought she skated her long program as well as she did in Dortmund a month later. The problem was, Denise Biellmann skated a better free program than anyone at the Olympics, relegating Linda to runner - up.

    Regarding Peggy's skate in Grenoble, it was apparently the only time Mrs Fleming (who was a notorious stage mother) hadn't fought with her daughter immediately before Peggy took to the ice. Normally, there would be a situation, and Peggy would cry away her nerves. According to Carlo Fassi and Peggy, when they was asked about it much later, this was the one time that didn't happen.

  10. #70

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    Peggy was from a "lower middle-class" background. Her father was a newspaper pressman; and the family (according to Peggy's own account on one of the televised Biography programs) "camped out" when money was tight. Her mother was "determined" that her daughter would succeed. I'm sure that the expectations that Mrs, Fleming expressed to Mr. Fassi extended to Peggy. also.

    She was certainly aware that the OGM could change her life; even if she couldn't have guessed just how many opportunities she would have as a result.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    Fratianne won the short in Lake Placid, and was second in the free. I thought she skated her long program as well as she did in Dortmund a month later. The problem was, Denise Biellmann skated a better free program than anyone at the Olympics, relegating Linda to runner - up.
    It didn't matter that Biellmann won the free-skate; raw point totals overall [Figures, SP and LP together] determined the ordinals on each judge's card in '80, so Fratianne for example could've had 0.1 higher on the each of the judge's marks in the SP, thereby still in 1st but winning by a higher pt. total, and still finishing 2d in the LP and win over Poetzsch overall. I hope that made sense

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    It didn't matter that Biellmann won the free-skate; raw point totals overall [Figures, SP and LP together] determined the ordinals on each judge's card in '80, so Fratianne for example could've had 0.1 higher on the each of the judge's marks in the SP, thereby still in 1st but winning by a higher pt. total, and still finishing 2d in the LP and win over Poetzsch overall. I hope that made sense
    Actually with the system used at that time, Biellmann could have skated a little worse, finished second behind Fratianne and the final results wouldn't have changed. That is Poetzsch had won as soon as her LP scores were calculated and nothing any other skater did after her would change that.

    Now given exactly the same scores but calculated according to the system they switched to the following season the final results would have been 1.Fratianne 2. Poetzsch 3. Biellmann.

  13. #73
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    Maybe the judges though didnt give Fratianne higher marks and more ahead of Poetzsch since they expected Biellmann to outskate Fratianne in the LP anyway. After all even in the short program with an easier combo Biellmann stole some 1st place votes, so in the long knowing she had a triple lutz and more triples than Fratianne planned most of them were probably holding Fratianne's marks back expecting Biellmann to beat her in the LP.

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