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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudy_Gumdrops View Post
    Maybe in Salt Lake she didn't do as well as she could, but take another look at her Nagano LP before you talk about crumbling under the pressure. She lost to a formidable opponent with one of the most ambitious programs jump-wise we've seen in ladies skating.
    I guess there are different ways to spin it. Carol's legacy is that after winning Olympic Silver in '56 she was unbeatable until she retired in '60 with the OGM.

    Five straight Wc's, 4 straight Natl titles ending in 60 with the big prize.
    Just saying Carol was one of the most dominant skaters of all time.

  2. #42
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    Not to take anything away from the amazing Carol Heiss but she really had no competition at all for the gold in 1960. She could have sat on the ice for half of her program and still won. And in 1956 when she did have a real opponent for the gold- Tenley Albright, she too lost.

    Still like I said just going by record alone Heiss is the most accomplished and decorated U.S skater IMO, even if few consider her the best U.S skater.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Just by medal count or medal prestige I would go with Carol Heiss as the most accomplished U.S lady ever with her 5 straight World titles, Olympic Gold, and Olympic silver. However despite her medal haul most seem to consider Heiss inferior to Fleming, Lynn, Kwan, Yamaguchi, Hamill, and maybe Albright.
    Heiss's skating style was somewhat unattractive. She seemed to hunched over when she skated and didn't have good lines. Her outfits also emphasized her short legs. Before one chimes in with "Well, that was the skating style back then", take a look at Tenley's style. Tenley came before Carol, but she had so much better on ice carriage and was more graceful than Carol. I'd rather watch utube vid of Tenley's skating over Carol's any time.

  4. #44

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    I don't listen to hype. I watch skating.

    Carol skated in the style of Sonja Henie and Barbara Ann Scott, which emphasized Victorian gentility, including bent limbs to emphasize the effortlessness of their skating. Tenley skated like MVO. Carol's skating only seems "unattractive" to some because MVO's style, which emphasized efficient clean lines, was more condusive to the development of triple jumps, so our eyes are used to seeing MVO's style of skating, which goes with that Linda Fratianne was the first US lady with consistent triples.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 12-29-2010 at 12:34 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    When was the last time Mishin trained anybody who was good? He took on Plushy about 15 years ago - and since then has not produced any good skaters.
    I dont remember any coach producing a new Yagudin/ Plushenko/Abt the last 15 years, with the exception of Klimkin.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post
    I dont remember any coach producing a new Yagudin/ Plushenko/Abt the last 15 years, with the exception of Klimkin.
    Klimkin!!!

    I really miss him.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    Carol's records can''t be touched by Kwan as Carol was more successful where it counts - the Olympics.

    Carol rose up to the occassion just as Kwan shrunk in the face of the pressure.
    Well....using your logic (like comparing 23-year old Alissa Czisny to a bunch of skaters who are in juniors), the Russian babies can eat Carol Heiss for breakfast themselves, since Carol has never landed a 3-3 in her life



    And you know what? Mirai and Kanako both have FLUTZES like Adelina too.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    this thread is seriously a trainwreck
    That's why I kind of love it
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

  9. #49
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    LOL for a second I too thought this thread was about actual Russian babies!

  10. #50
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    I don't think the Russian babies are overhyped as Juniors but maybe as potential great seniors. You never know how growth will go. Now Liza could be Mao 2 but it is not like a guarantee of any kind.

  11. #51
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    This thread is ridiculous. First of all, most of these Russian babies are FOURTEEN years old. Why are you comparing them with Alissa who is 23? Here is Alissa at 17, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Co8ilXlvo , she's a second rate wanna be version of 14 year old Adelina, with crappy jumps to boot. Oh and what about Yuna Kim, breaker of all those World Records? Here she is at 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZacRA9DqSo0 and once again, a far cry from Adelina, and most of the other Russian youngsters for that matter. Mirai was good at 13 and 14 yes, but she was also way smaller (4'7) than Adelina (5'3") and Liza (5'1") are now, so it was clearly easier to get those triples done. Zhang was impressive at 13 and 14 if you ignored her complete lack of speed and weak basics, and again, she was uber-tiny. Kanako is pretty good but she was nowhere near Adelina and Liza's level when she was 14 and IMHO isn't even better than either of them right now, she's just competing on the senior circuit where the field is depleted and no one is attempting ambitious jump content.

    Adelina and Liza are prodigies, they are amazing for their age and you can't deny that. Are they soup yet? Not quite, but give them a break, they are so young and having to adjust to their growing and changing bodies nonstop. This thread is just stupid. You can't compare 14 year old skaters who are in the middle of puberty to skaters who are years older, more mature, and more experienced. It's just stupid.

  12. #52
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    I don't think this thread should be taken seriously.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Just by medal count or medal prestige I would go with Carol Heiss as the most accomplished U.S lady ever with her 5 straight World titles, Olympic Gold, and Olympic silver.
    There's a big difference between medal count and medal prestige. The US Figure Skating website lists Kwan as the US lady with the most medals.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  14. #54
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    Wow, this thread is too much to take in at once.

    I mean you're comparing a group of girls aged 11 to 14 and comparing them to seasoned international competitors like Kanako, Mirai, and Alissa (who is more than double the age of Lipnitskaya!).

    Michelle Kwan wasn't a "top" US Ladies Skater? Nah. 9 national titles, 5 world titles, and 2 Olympic medals isn't good enough.

    Seriously, if nothing else this thread is good for a laugh! Please go on.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    The Japanese Ladies would have the Russian "babies" for breakfast.
    Kanako owns the Russian "babies" if we want to be honest about it.

    Alissa with 4-5 triples is better than these babies and Mirai with 6 triples would beat then by 10-15 points.

    Don't forget, Mirai can spin and also project some personality. The Russian 'babies" are exactly as we call them......"babies"

    Not very impressed.

    The best example is Mishin's triple axel girl.......

    When this slow skater, void of all personality grows she will be lucky if she can still land her jumps.

    Ksenia would be lucky, with a very clean skate to make top 6 at US Natls. The same for Japanese Natls.

    Perhaps Pinky will give us a puberty forecast....

    But for now , Adelina, complete with flexibilty, musicality and FLUTZ looks like a second rate Sasha.

    Sorry, but not good enough.

    Am I wrong?

    One name you left off: Julia LIPNITSKAYA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEF41tCbP3g

    She's only twelve!

    I don't think Russian girls will make an impact until before Sochi's Olympics are over. The momentum is with Japanese girls. But after that, watch out!

  16. #56

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    But for now , Adelina, complete with flexibilty, musicality and FLUTZ looks like a second rate Sasha.
    While I don't think Adelina's positions are as good as Sasha's, Adelina has things that Sasha did not have. She has really great skating skills for her age (speed, flow over the ice) And her jumps are better.

    The Russians have a LOT of young talent. I really like their 11 year old Elena.
    The others - all of these "Polinas" would be lost in Japanese or USA fedearation. Althouh if they were Canadian it might give them a real chance.
    You are joking right? Last I checked all 3 Russian girls did better than all of the American girls and Japan's top junior at the JGPF. And both Polinas beat Gao and Baga at Junior Worlds.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    Michelle Kwan by herself has as many or more major Intl medals as all Russian Ladies in history.

    And Michelle is not even a top USA Lady. She was certainly very good and without doubt the best of the Janet Lynn imitators.
    LMAO sorry...but this just made me laugh Michelle is not even a top USA lady???? no really.. you have to be joking here...

  18. #58
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    Dude the Cold War ended.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    LMAO sorry...but this just made me laugh Michelle is not even a top USA lady???? no really.. you have to be joking here...
    The OP has to be trollin or something, because if Michelle isn't a top US lady, then who is?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indra486 View Post
    Dude the Cold War ended.
    yeah but the WWII hasn't ended if you look at the yuna or mao threads.. always the same posters attacking one nation and its skaters.

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