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  1. #21

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    Katarina and Claudia Leistner were very much the international "It Girls" that season. (Alas, Leistner went downhill, for a while, after 83 Worlds.)

    Witt was the Euro Champ. So her time had definitely come. The win in Sarajevo was not at all a surprise to those who live in those times and attended major events, as I did. Roz was a pretty and pleasant fluke.

    The "surprise" was that Witt went past 1984. Nobody in the 1982-84 period would have predicted the longevity of Witt in amateur competition.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    1981-1984 was the craziest quadrennial for womens skating ever. Even going into Sarajevo I dont think people knew what to expect. ....
    Maybe not in North America. Witt was IT everywhere else, at least since summer 82. I lived it. (And I'm the "other" F.Muller...not the real one. )

  3. #23

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Gaby Seyfert
    Gaby won two Worlds in 1969 & 1970

    Re: Witt in '82 and '83. She was the combined free skating champion at both those Worlds. She should have won overall in '82, it was there for the taking despite Zayak's great performance but she made mistakes. 1983 it was her figures that did her in, but I think it's very clear that she was regarded as the biggest potential OGM for Sarejevo by the international judges, especially after Biellmann's shock early retirement.

  5. #25
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    Poor Leistner looked like the big up and coming star along with Witt in 1982 and 1983 but never really was a contender ever again after her weak Olympic showing in 1984. Well not until her last season in 1989 when nearly everyone had retired. From 1985-1988 she just kept getting passed by everyone and most years was 4th at Europeans, including even 1987 where she skated so well. In 1982 and 1983 she looked fresh and exciting with her ability to do so many triples, but she became stale and boring as the years went by. Even her 1989 World silver performance was an eyesore.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Gaby won two Worlds in 1969 & 1970
    Sharp as a tac, you are.

    I thought I got to it before anybody saw

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Katarina and Claudia Leistner were very much the international "It Girls" that season. (Alas, Leistner went downhill, for a while, after 83 Worlds.)
    Leistner's atistry, program and music cut in 83 was crap. I don't know how she could've been seen as the "It" girl.

    Witt was the Euro Champ. So her time had definitely come. The win in Sarajevo was not at all a surprise to those who live in those times and attended major events, as I did. Roz was a pretty and pleasant fluke.
    Witt's win in 84 was somewhat of a surprised, although she was definitely considered a major threat to Roz for the Olympic title. Roz convincingly won the World title in 83. If you take away the triples, Roz was the better free skater than Witt. She could've, would've ..yadayadayada...won in 84. Who knew why she decided to double the last two triples and single the final axel in her LP. The mistake in the SP was stupid.

  8. #28
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    From what I've watched, Katarina's win was not such a surprise in 1984. She was a two-time Euro champ. Silver medalist at Worlds in 1982, first lady to land a 3Flip, and she landed 3Loop in 1983. Her jumps were beautiful, so was her skating. From 1983, she developped her grace and interpretation.

  9. #29
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    I always found Witt kind of awkward (look at her crossovers, look at her spin positions) and her 'artistry' was basically a reference first to her natural good looks and later to her cultivated showmanship.

    And most of her winning performances just aren't that great or memorable (except for her 87 worlds lp which was great in every sense of the word). But she had the toughest mental games of any skater ever.

    I think of Hughes as about as big a fluke as Meissner. I'm not disputing her win but her SLC victory really did come right out of and lead right back to nowhere. A very bizarre little chapter in ladies skating history.

  10. #30
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    ^ But the thing is Hughes was at least proven to be a medal contender. Meissner just barely emerged into the senior ranks. And under 6.0, I think any free skate like what Hughes skated in SLC was going to win the gold medal.

  11. #31
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    What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

    But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

    But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.

    This. After Kimmie's climb up the ladder, lots of people (many on this forum) thought she would certainly challenge for Olympic gold in 2010.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    1981-1984 was the craziest quadrennial for womens skating ever. Even going into Sarajevo I dont think people knew what to expect. Sumners was probably favorite but was clearly vurnerable. Witt was doing well that season but hadnt won a major title yet. Zayak seemed to be on the way down but shocked most people with some of her best performances ever in Sarajevo, but unfortunately clearly was out of favor by that point it turned out. Leistner, Voderezova, Ivanova returning to competition but not really being proven yet even in her first go around, Chin, Kondrashova, Rueben.

    Many of the top skaters in the middle of the quad just retiring or dissapearing altogether- Biellmann, Binder, Cottrill, DeVries, Vegelius, and others making returns from long absences like Voderezova and Ivanova.
    I have to agree with this assessment of Roz being the shaky favorite. I disagree that Witt going into 1984 was the favorite. Her skating, especially in the '81 - '84 quadrennial, had its weaknesses which I think Mafke alluded to. She had 2 Euro titles but the US ladies were extremely strong. Roz was current world champ with a powerful fed. behind her, and she had much stronger basics than '84 Witt. Witt probably had an edge jump-wise because she was going for a 3flip, but even that was tenuous at best and she ultimately left that out by Sarajevo and '84 Worlds. Otherwise she was only doing 3toes and 3sals, too.

    Yes. This quadrennial was crazy - of the top finishers in '81 - 1. Biellmann, 2. Zayak, 3. Kristofics-Binder, 4. Cottrell, 3 were completely gone from competition and the 4th [Zayak] ended up down in 6th place by Sarajevo. There were 7 different medalists on 3 world podiums from 1981 - 1983. The only double medalists from '81 - '83 were Zayak [silver '81; gold '82] and Kristofics-Binder [bronze '81 and '82] WOW

  14. #34

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    I just found Katarina Witt's skating in the 1980s to be so outdated and wooden and unfinished. I have to say that as much as I hate to admit it, Roz Sumners really knew how to move on the ice...pretty princess or not. It's not easy finishing off moves otherwise more skaters would do it.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

    But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.
    Well, what did you expect? Kimmie's technique on her jumps were very odd and borderline terrible, and with her body changes, it was no wonder she lost them.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

    But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.
    Up until fall 2007 Meissner was actually still very well respected by the judges. She in fact was getting "held up" in a big way in PCS for the first half of the 07-08 season. Jumpwise she was barely landing anything yet still made the GP final with a 1st and 2nd place finish, and won Skate America. Someone who broke down the scores showed she was about 12th in TES on the grand prix but still 3rd in PCS. It in fact was to the point of being unfair, someone like Rochette was landing many more jumps than Meissner during the grand prix series yet wasnt getting anywhere near the PCS and missed the final (they didnt compete H2H mind you). It wasnt until after bombing both the GP final and Nationals too the judges finally dropped Meissner's PCS down quite a bit.

    I dont know what most expected from Meissner. I thought she would have alot better career then she has. However I would have predicted her to never win another World title even back in 2006, probably another couple medals and maybe an Olympic medal in 2010, but I didnt see her as even close to the next dominant skater.

  17. #37

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    She was such a 6.0 skater, not brilliant anywhere except consistency from '04-'07, but no glaring weaknesses...at least by 6.0 standards.

    Back to Witt, I loved her 2z3toe combo, and I wish more skaters would try this.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    She was such a 6.0 skater, not brilliant anywhere except consistency from '04-'07, but no glaring weaknesses...at least by 6.0 standards.

    Back to Witt, I loved her 2z3toe combo, and I wish more skaters would try this.
    (sadly), You won't be seeing many of those combinations these days, because in the CoP era, there really isn't any incentive to do double-triple combinations because the base value isn't increased vs. a triple-double combination.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    (sadly), You won't be seeing many of those combinations these days, because in the CoP era, there really isn't any incentive to do double-triple combinations because the base value isn't increased vs. a triple-double combination.
    That is so stupid. And I love the double-triple combos, they have such a distinct rhythm and they add variety to the jump layout.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post

    16. Kimmie Meissner- I hate to say it especialy as I like Kimmie but isnt it obvious by now it was one of the flukes in history probably.

    I think the gold of Sarah was the biggest fluke. Kimmie wasn't compete with Kwan and Slutskaya in their life form atleast.

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