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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    No, the 6 federations had some discretion in choosing their own teams. IIRC, the 2009 WTT Announcement stated that the top 2 singles skaters in the ISU World Standings after 2009 Worlds should be considered by the federations, along with their World team members, and I believe Johnny Weir and Caroline Zhang were the #2 ranked U.S. man and lady at that time. Zhang was selected by USFS, while Weir reportedly declined the opportunity (hadn't he stopped training after Nationals?) and so Abbott was next in line in the standings.
    Actually no. Here is the original communication from 2009.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...v1QNFg&cad=rja

    The important points are these. Normally, world standings are based on the last 2 seasons, plus the current. For the 2009 WTT, a different system was set up using only the 2008 - 2009 season. Since Evan was World Champ and Jeremy was GPF champ, they were on top.

    Secondly, there is some tough language in that memo that states the ISU expects top skaters to compete, and mentions possible consequences.

  2. #22
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    ^ I read through both the document you linked (the preliminary announcement for WTT 2009) and the final announcement for WTT 2009 and did not see any language supporting that the ISU World Standings would be calculated any differently.

    All that these two 2009 announcements say is that the ISU can decide to exclude a team that does not consist of the best-ranked skaters:
    Furthermore, in case that one or more of the best ranked Skaters/Couples (in the ISU World Standings valid after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2009) of a Qualified ISU Member elects not to participate, the ISU reserves the right to exclude such team from the competition and to invite instead Member/s whose team is ranked next in the ISU World Team Trophy qualification list.
    These announcements also threaten restrictions on exhibition skating and/or sanctions if certain skaters do not participate in WTT:

    Any Skater/Couple from a Qualified ISU Member, who placed within the first ten (10) places at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2009 and is ranked in the ISU World Standings among the best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple of his/her/their respective Qualified ISU Member, if this Skater/Couple elects in advance of the ISU World Team Trophy not to participate in the ISU World Team Trophy (for whatever reason), he/she/they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions from Monday noon after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2009, during the ISU World Team Trophy, and until April 26, 2009.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisWeirness View Post
    ^ I read through both the document you linked (the preliminary announcement for WTT 2009) and the final announcement for WTT 2009 and did not see any language supporting that the ISU World Standings would be calculated any differently.
    To alleviate your , here is the paragraph.

    b) Six (6) ISU Members will qualify based on points scored by its best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, best Pair Skating couple and best Ice Dancing couple, calculated in accordance to the scale of the ISU World Standing points in sub-paragraph e) below, primarily at ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events and Final season 2008/09 as well as the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2009 (to be held on March 23-29, 2009 in Los Angeles/USA), plus possibly the ISU European Figure Skating Championships/ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships 2009, the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2009 and ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating season 2008/09.

  4. #24

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    Polymer, that refers to the way the countries qualify in the first place. As to which skaters from those countries are required to compete at WTT, it is (or was) how HW and Sylvia stated.

  5. #25

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    The question I have is what if you have a situation where V/T place higher at Worlds than K/S, but K/S have the higher ranking due to being together longer. Is the ISU really going to tell Russia they HAVE to use K/S?

  6. #26

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    I think this competition is a silly made for sponsors cheesefest. How can this even be considered a skating competition (as opposed to entertainment)? The final results do not depend on a individual's performance or skaters working together. It is clearly just a money grubbing venture far from the historical mission of the ISU.

    Furthermore, the ISU is cutting into opportunities for top finishers to earn money in exhibitions post-Worlds. This is terrible for skaters, offering them only a chance for prize money, as opposed to regular pay. How are they supposed to pay for the cost of participation in the sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    The question I have is what if you have a situation where V/T place higher at Worlds than K/S, but K/S have the higher ranking due to being together longer. Is the ISU really going to tell Russia they HAVE to use K/S?
    Let them do it. It will be funny.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-03-2011 at 05:38 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    The question I have is what if you have a situation where V/T place higher at Worlds than K/S, but K/S have the higher ranking due to being together longer. Is the ISU really going to tell Russia they HAVE to use K/S?
    Actually K/S are better than V/T. They are more popular in Japan.

  8. #28

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    Furthermore, the ISU is cutting into opportunities for top finishers to earn money in exhibitions post-Worlds. This is terrible for skaters, offering them only a chance for prize money, as opposed to regular pay. How are they supposed to pay for the cost of participation in the sport?
    Last time this competition was held, the prize money for everyone (even the last place finishers) was extremely good. I don't think having to do this for a weekend cut into anyone's earnings.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I think this competition is a silly made for sponsors cheesefest. How can this even be considered a skating competition (as opposed to entertainment)? The final results do not depend on a individual's performance or skaters working together. It is clearly just a money grubbing venture far from the historical mission of the ISU.

    Furthermore, the ISU is cutting into opportunities for top finishers to earn money in exhibitions post-Worlds. This is terrible for skaters, offering them only a chance for prize money, as opposed to regular pay. How are they supposed to pay for the cost of participation in the sport?
    Have you heard any skater complaining about the World Team Trophy? If I recall correctly, the feedback from the last event was enormously positive. The prize money for the skaters is also exceptionally good, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    It's a great way for the Americans, Canadians, and Russians to win extra money. Japan is always going to have that deficit from dance, while China is going to suffer in anything not pairs. The US, Russians, and Canadians consistently have strong overall teams. (Yes, I know that the Japanese won bronze last time, but the Russians are MUCH stronger now.)
    The teams consist of two women, two men, one ice dance team and one pairs team. So Japan will have four very strong entries out of six, which is as much as can be said for any of the other countries.


    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I think this competition is a silly made for sponsors cheesefest. How can this even be considered a skating competition (as opposed to entertainment)? The final results do not depend on a individual's performance or skaters working together. It is clearly just a money grubbing venture far from the historical mission of the ISU.
    The team competition in artistic gymnastics also depends on individual performances by gymnasts, but it is a very prestigious event, appreciated by the audiences and the gymnasts.

    In figure skating, the team competition measures something different than the individual competitions: it shows the overall level of skating in a country, in all four disciplines, rather than in a single discipline. So I disagree that it is meaningless. Admit it, it is exciting!

  11. #31
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    I'm really not getting all this dismissal of the WTT as a cheesefest at all. The last event was hugely enjoyable but also very high in quality. There seemed to be a more relaxed atmosphere sure, but it certainly wasn't to the detriment of the overall skating. IIRC there were some superb performances including Lysacek, Asada, Flatt and Zhang who all skated lights out clean LP's.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Have you heard any skater complaining about the World Team Trophy? If I recall correctly, the feedback from the last event was enormously positive. The prize money for the skaters is also exceptionally good, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
    I have not heard of any complaints.

    However, that does not mean this section from the ISU Announcement in 2009 wasn't disturbing:

    3.2 Consequences of non-participation
    It is of the highest importance that Rule 136 paragraph 6 of the ISU General. Regulations be respected and implemented by all ISU Members and Skaters. To be in compliance with Rule 136, paragraph 6, the following directive is issued by the ISU Council. Any Skater/Couple from a Qualified ISU Member, who placed within the first ten (10) places at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2011 and is ranked in the ISU World Standings among the best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple of his/her/their respective Qualified ISU Member, if this Skater/Couple elects in advance of the ISU World Team Trophy not to participate in the ISU World Team Trophy (for whatever reason), he/she/they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions from Monday noon (March 28th, 2011) after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2011, during the ISU World Team Trophy, and until April 24, 2011.
    If the money is so good, then missing out on this money would be a sanction in and of itself. There should be no need to bar skaters from participating in other competitions, shows, and exhibitions for four weeks, and the role of sanctioning individual skaters should be left to member federations, not the ISU directly.

    ETA: BTW, after a couple of years, the money does not have to continue to be good for skaters to still be required to participate or be sanctioned by the ISU.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-03-2011 at 03:53 PM.

  13. #33
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    So, will Euros and 4CC results count?
    I can't believe the French Fed did not send a pair to TEB. Way to lose precious prize money and exposure for your skaters!

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    So, will Euros and 4CC results count?
    From the Announcement:
    ... in the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2011; If Skaters/Couples of a Member have not obtained World Standing points in the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2011, then it is possible to use the ISU European Figure Skating Championships 2011 respectively the ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships 2011 and if needed the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2011.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Kitty View Post
    I'm thankful Japan is putting this on again, as I doubt many other (if any) countries were competing for the event. It was a fun event last time, and it's a nice chance for the skaters to get some extra money.
    and it's a nice chance for the skaters to get some extra money.
    => That's the key point actually.

  16. #36
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    Did anyone update the current rankings after Euros/ 4CC? I am curious to see who will qualify between France, Italy and China.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    Did anyone update the current rankings after Euros/ 4CC?
    No, because Worlds results have priority over Euros/4CC (see the Announcement excerpt in post #34 above).

  18. #38

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    I think that it is going to be very strange if, for example, a new pairs team ends up on the podium at Worlds and is from a country that is part of WTT, but that winning pairs team isn't included in the competition because they aren't highest in World Ranking points. The same thing could rather easily happen on the men's side with Abbott being sent even if one of the other guys manages somehow to land on the podium. Somehow I'm pretty sure this isn't going to be the effect the ISU was looking for.

  19. #39

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    I guess this means D/W will have to do the WTT, since they're skating in SOI after Worlds. So they'll come home from Japan, go out on tour for 2 weekends, and then get on a plane to fly to Japan again.

    It would be so much easier to have the Shibs go. And they could probably use the prize money more.

  20. #40
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    I feel badly that none of these skaters get time off from their seasons. Money is great of course, but how about a break?
    In my spare time, I like to interview figure skating legends.

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