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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    How about saying Virtue & Moir or V/M? I loather these mashups of names.
    Bless you and thank you!!

    As much as I'd love to see Tessa and Scott this season, Tessa'a health and future ablity to actually be able to walk and move w/out pain for the rest of her life is far more important. If they have to sit out, then they have to sit out.

    As for the "D&W will win Worlds w/out V&M being there" talk, I remember Kurt Browning's late Father saying something along the lines of how the ice was always slippery side up. I do love D&W, but have not been wowed by their FD as of yet this season and that's a disappointment as I was really looking forward to it too. We'll see what US Nats show and I really do hope it shows growth, but it's starting to get awfully late in the game to start overhauling it.

    I don't think it's a slam dunk for Meryl and Charlie at all come time for Worlds. Would really love to see them win, as I am a fan, but I'm also a worried fan of theirs. It just seemed that exquisite FD they had to Samson and Delilah two years ago really set them up to expand on that and show us more of that potential they still have in spades, but instead have reached some sort of plateau.

    I hope they're able to get past it somehow, but am wondering if it will happen or not.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I would like D/W to win worlds whether V/M are there or not but I don't think D/W can be scored fairly if V/M are there. For example, IMO there was no way V/M deserved to win the OD portion at the Olys. V/M have been crowned & it really doesn't matter what they put out there. (I concede what they put out there is superior many times but they have been known to receive chanflation.)
    I agree. No matter what V/M do, they will always be considered the best in the world and it will always be judged, so that they can win. Example? Last year's Worlds, when D/W absolutely deserved to win. Or 2009 Worlds when they riddiculously lost to undertrained V/M only by the CD score! If V/M come back this season (which I still would like to, for the sake of competition or for the simple fact that if D/W win everyone will say it's just because V/M weren't there), they may actually still beat D/W considering their previous reputation, no matter how unprepared they are. I sure do believe this time will be different, though and D/W finally get the gold they deserve.

    I'm sincerely sick and tired of everyone worshipping Tessa and Scott and being blind to their mistakes or flaws, or just worse skates when they have any. I do want them to come back and I still hope they impress me one day, but if it means them winning everything for the next 4 years, I'd rather pass, thank you very much.


    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    ETA I equally hate "the goose" & D/W's balance lift....IMO that is not either skating or dancing. It's acrobatics.
    I swear if I see "the goose" one more time in any of their dances (even in exhibitions), I'm gonna puke. It's not even that I hate the lift, but they've been overusing it to death.

  3. #63

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    Tessa and Scott have said themselves that they are leaving the "goose" behind as far as their new competitive programs go. They had it in exhibitions last year as people were requesting the signature move from the Olympic season, not to mention the fact that they weren't really in a position to develop new and original exhibition programs.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    I agree. No matter what V/M do, they will always be considered the best in the world and it will always be judged, so that they can win.
    I agree with this to a certain extent but they didn't win 4CC that year and it was in Canada. But yes, I get tired of the Tessa and Scott worship too.

  5. #65

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    At 2010 WCh i saw competiiton 'live' and could say, that V-M were better in CD and OD. wich they won (they had even better speed in OD), but made mistake in FD and lose it and D-W got small gold medals . But overall won, because this was 3 stage of competition.
    Now (maybe for D-W too) ISU made only two stages without CD. Maybe this was made to help them to win gold this year and maybe in next 3 years.
    As for V-M worship - they lose to D-W 4CC in Canada, FD at 2009 and 2010 WCh, GPF (where judges gave them lower components score for Mahler, then D-W got for PoO).
    But maybe you will be happy soon. V-M will not compete, D-W will win and all start D-W worship

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    But overall won, because this was 3 stage of competition.
    3 stages of competition didn't matter when Tessa and Scott won bronze over Meryl and Charlie in 2009 despite loosing OD and FD to them.

    As for V-M worship - they lose to D-W 4CC in Canada, FD at 2009 and 2010 WCh, GPF (where judges gave them lower components score for Mahler, then D-W got for PoO).
    When I say worship I mean everybody is always delighted by everything they do. I don't mean only the judges, but fans and media more than that. As for the times they lost to D/W - loosing the FD and overall winning is exactly what I meant - it's judged so that D/W can get their high scores, but in the end it have to be V/M who wins. As for 4CC and GPF - true, but why is that the judges are not afraid to judge so at those events but never have the courage to do so at Worlds?

    But maybe you will be happy soon. V-M will not compete, D-W will win and all start D-W worship
    You're not reading carefully. I said I want V/M to be there at Worlds. And I don't think any worship is healthy and I would feel weird if it started around D/W, cause even though I love them, I can admit when I don't like something they do. With V/M it's like, you say something negative about them and the hype just gets to you and eats you.

  7. #67

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    Perhaps D&W losing to V&M due to the CD would give some fans the inclination that D&W need to work on their CD's.

    If they worked harder at them perhaps they wouldn't have lost to V&M and all this bemoaning and wuzrobbed and wouldn't be happening now.

    Fact is V&M were technically superior to D&W. Until D&W step up and work on their technical flaws they will continue to place under an injured V&M.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Skatefan View Post
    snip
    But yes, I get tired of the Tessa and Scott worship too.
    And you are still standing after saying that? I received several PMs telling me that I didn't know what I was looking at and Tessa and Scott are magical. More than any team ever.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    When I say worship I mean everybody is always delighted by everything they do. I don't mean only the judges, but fans and media more than that.
    Oh please - this is hardly the case.

    There are many people who don't love anything they do - let alone everything they do.

    As with most skaters - they have their extreme ubers, their ubers, their fans,their sometimes fans/some parts fans and their detractors. (Some parts meaning people who like some aspects or parts but not all about them)

    Most of the categories in the above list realize they are not perfect, that every competition is not perfect,that they have things to work on and that not everything they do is as good/great as their best work.

    Their extreme ubers may not. But no one's extreme ubers seem to realize faults in their favourites.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    Perhaps D&W losing to V&M due to the CD would give some fans the inclination that D&W need to work on their CD's.

    If they worked harder at them perhaps they wouldn't have lost to V&M and all this bemoaning and wuzrobbed and wouldn't be happening now.

    Fact is V&M were technically superior to D&W. Until D&W step up and work on their technical flaws they will continue to place under an injured V&M.
    You really believe what you're saying? Tessa and Scott were a mess at 2009 Worlds, everybody saw it. They were 6th in the OD. 6th. And their FD also had nothing on D/W's Samson and Dalilah either.
    So winning by the score of CD is ok with you? How about when it comes to D/S and F/S from Tallinn, same case? I know CDs are (were) essential, but to win only thanks to a CD score is just plain riddiculous for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Accordion View Post
    There are many people who don't love anything they do - let alone everything they do.

    As with most skaters - they have their extreme ubers, their ubers, their fans,their sometimes fans/some parts fans and their detractors. (Some parts meaning people who like some aspects or parts but not all about them)

    Most of the categories in the above list realize they are not perfect, that every competition is not perfect,that they have things to work on and that not everything they do is as good/great as their best work.
    I would like to believe that, but my experiences are the opposite. Please go to any forum and try saying something negative about them. You'll get a storm in return, while normally you'd only get a discussion. I have barely seen a bad word on Tessa and Scott except admitting they were undertrained in 2009, which doesn't really count.

  11. #71

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    Yes I do believe what I am saying. Otherwise I wouldn't have said it!!

    Virtue & Moir did very well in their patterns of the CD in 2009 World's, well above D&W whom I feel need to put more time and effort into their CD patterns. V&M didn't do as well in their OD and placed 6th, rightfully so...however because of their CD they still maintained 3rd spot. After their FD, they placed forth and just barely edged out D&W for the bronze thanks to their CD.

    I could go over the last 20 years of ice dance where one team edged out another team for a medal and some didn't understand why. IMHO, D&S should have placed 4th after B&A in the Olympics but because D&S had an amazing CD they won bronze.

    1999 World's, L&A were IMHO, looking back, underappreciated in their FD and placed below B&K who had a mistake in their FD but still hung on to win bronze. Courtesy of the CD's and OD they won bronze.

    So to answer your question. Yes I am okay with it because D&W could have won bronze if their CD was better. Plain and simple IMHO.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  12. #72
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    Back to the original thread title, any news on how V&M are progressing? Back on the ice? Looking good? In shape?

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by numbers123 View Post
    And you are still standing after saying that? I received several PMs telling me that I didn't know what I was looking at and Tessa and Scott are magical. More than any team ever.
    LOL, I'm watching my back as we speak!

  14. #74
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    I do believe there are some V&M super-ubers milling about and some of the rhetoric is a bit over the top but I've never seen a V&M thread closed because of negative comments. And there have been some including from myself as much as I do love their skating.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    So winning by the score of CD is ok with you?
    Unless you think the score was wrong - which I'm not commenting on, as I don't remember the event - how could it not be okay? The score of the CD is part of the total score, just as the SPs are part of the total score, and can determine whether or not a skater/team wins.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Unless you think the score was wrong - which I'm not commenting on, as I don't remember the event - how could it not be okay? The score of the CD is part of the total score, just as the SPs are part of the total score, and can determine whether or not a skater/team wins.
    I agree. There are a ton of results for singles competitions in which figures factored in that I dislike the result, but the fact of the matter is that is how the events were judged at the time. Compulsories are no longer part of the competition, so perhaps we will see differences in the results that might not have happened before. Would I have liked to have see D&W win Worlds last year, absolutely, but I also know that compulsories held them back big time.

    I do wonder if Davis and White will be able to pull off a win against V&M this year. In the past, even with terrific vehicles like their Indian OD and Samson Delilah programs, V&M were able to beat them. This year, I don't think D&W have particularly strong programs. So, even though I would much prefer Meryl and Charlie to win, I'm not sure it is going to happen.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen View Post
    I do wonder if Davis and White will be able to pull off a win against V&M this year. In the past, even with terrific vehicles like their Indian OD and Samson Delilah programs, V&M were able to beat them. This year, I don't think D&W have particularly strong programs. So, even though I would much prefer Meryl and Charlie to win, I'm not sure it is going to happen.
    Even though D/W programmes are not as strong this season I think they will pull it off.They will be more trained and polished .This is the time for them to win World Gold .The programmes started off poor but I'm sure have been and will be much improved by March.

  18. #78

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    I love both teams a whole lot but love V and M just a bit more. To me - seeing the skaters in practice and in their OD and FD at the Olympics last year - these 2 were clearly just that much better than anyone else in those phases of the competition. (I did think Domshabs were the best in the CD)

    However, with the 2 teams being so very close last year - I just don't see it as being possible that V and M could win this year if they do end up coming back.

    If you are talking about reputation judging - the last time that a less healthy / less trained V and M beat D and W, they didn't seem to be considered as equals. Now I do believe they are- well virtually. If V and M do come back (which I find doubtful) and they aren't well trained, it will be obvious IMO- and I don't see the judges ignoring the discrepancy in teams who - when both healthy - were judged to be so close last season.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMBS Go Blue View Post
    Back to the original thread title, any news on how V&M are progressing? Back on the ice? Looking good? In shape?
    To answer your questions...

    I don't think anyone knows how they are progressing. They did skate in an exhibition in late December, where they looked a little tentative, but who knows now.

    They are back training in Michigan now, I think, and Tessa's recovery is supposedly going better this time.

    They are on the starting orders for Canadian championships, but that doesn't mean much. On CBC's Grand Prix Final coverage a week ago, Tracy Wilson seemed to be treating it as a foregone conclusion that they would not be there. She was speculating on whether Crone/Poirier or Weaver/Poje would win. Also, I think there was a mention somewhere that Marina Zoueva was interviewed in Russia and did not expect them to go to Canadians. I could be wrong though...

    In any case, we just have to wait and see.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by nuge View Post
    Even though D/W programmes are not as strong this season I think they will pull it off.They will be more trained and polished .This is the time for them to win World Gold .The programmes started off poor but I'm sure have been and will be much improved by March.
    I'm hoping that when I see the programs live in a couple weeks that my opinion will change. I loved K&O's program to "La Traviata," so I really want to like their SD. In general, I'm really curious to see the SD live and decide what I really think about it.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

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