View Poll Results: What is your viewpoint on the Reclining Seats issue?

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  • Rude Rude Rude! Reclining is an invasion of personal space

    46 36.22%
  • It's a Right! The button is there for a reason, and by golly I'm gonna use it

    53 41.73%
  • Pity you poor people! I'll be in First Class and above all this perfluffle

    6 4.72%
  • Peace Love Granola

    22 17.32%
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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Really, if the coach seats are an absolute deal-breaker, you have the option of paying for business or first, which have more leg room but are priced accordingly. More room and more service means it costs more, it's up to the customer to decide if it's worth it.
    You call a 500% or more increase "priced accordingly"?!?! And when you fly for business, it's not up to the customer to decide if it's worth it. It's up to the organization, which in my most recent experience would not even pay for a checked bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmeck View Post
    You are making the assumption that the person sitting does not need the seat as much as the person standing. Can you do that just by looking at a person? That would be quite a skill - could you see the huge chunk of flesh removed from the back of my leg, the osteopenia in my hip, the damage in my vertebrae? Try not to assume that the 47 year old, 5'3", 115 lb woman does not need a seat. OTOH, my 71 year old FIL still goes skiing, works full time as a carpenter, and plays hockey. He might look like he needs a seat, but he could run circles around me.

    I also have to recline my seat periodically during a flight. Not all the way, but I do need to relieve pressure on my back and hip by changing position every now and then. So, even if the jolly green giant was sitting behind me, I'd have to recline, and I'm not going to ask for permission. I'd let the person know, but I'm not asking if I could.
    There's a polite and impolite way to let someone know. I'd be fine, appreciative actually, if someone like you said, "I know this is a cramped flight, and I apologize for reclining my seat. However, I must do it periodically for medical reasons".

    However, if the person behind you responds that they have knee problems, then you better be willing to compromise.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I answered it was rude....

    [snip]

    I'm usually working on my laptop on flights and it is a real disturbance to have someone recline the seat while I'm doing it. I tend to agree with the poster that says that it probably inconveniences the person behind the seat a lot more than it helps the person in front.
    So your right to use your laptop supersedes the right of the person in front of you to be comfortable in his or her seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Flying has become so awful that passengers are looking to retain any semblance of comfort they can...which means people aren't really interested in compromising with their neighbors.

    .......

    I think the crapfest that is airline flight also contributes toward peoples' intolerance for crying babies and just about any other annoyance on planes, too.
    You've hit the nail on the head. Post 9/11, flying has just become a gigantic cattle call. First you have to practically strip naked to pass through security, display your personal toiletries to the world in a one quart see-through ziploc bag (3-1-1 people!), get poked and prodded by TSA or worse, get x-rayed, and if you're really lucky, you get picked for a secondary screening.

    Then you get to your gate and chances are your flight is late, so when the equipment does arrive, they need to turn it around stat, which means at best a cursory cleaning. Then since most airlines have instituted a fee for checked baggage, everyone is trying to carry all their luggage on board, but there's not enough room for everyone's bags in the cabin, so that creates competition for overhead bin space, which in turn creates competition to board as early as possible so that you can beat someone else out for that last available overhead bin slot. And since airlines have cut back on the number of flights, the plane is almost always full to capacity, so you're literally cramped in all directions - by the seat and by your fellow passengers next to you.

    Add to that the fact that flights seem to be delayed far more often than they used to be, and it all adds up to a less than pleasant experience. But I'm telling you - JetBlue is the way to go if you can. They have a humane amount of leg room, they allow you to check a bag without charge, their planes are clean, and they have in-seat personal pacifiers TVs to keep people distracted. And their fares are cheap.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  3. #63
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    I only fly JetBlue right now too. Wish they flew to Norway!

    What I would like as a rule, but know it would never happen, is that people without baggage in the overheads get to get off the plane first, then the idiots, oops, I mean, passengers with huge bags stuffed in the overhead bins could get their stuff down without hitting the rest of us in the head. Nothing more frustrating than standing there while someone tries to wrestle some monstrous boulder of a bag, while no one can get around him.

    For the record, I do not recline even half the way back, just a few inches to relieve the pressure. Even if someone had bad knees behind me, I'd be reclining, of course not down to the knees, but I'd have to be removed by transport chair if I couldn't alter my seating during the flight.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    So your right to use your laptop supersedes the right of the person in front of you to be comfortable in his or her seat?

    .
    This is the whole problem with the question - it's a battle of people thinking "what's best for me".
    By reclining one's seat, one often seriously impedes on the comfort of the person behind. I personally really, really struggle with restricted leg space and I can't really understand how people can put up with reclined seats, since my knees ache and I can barely walk exiting the plane when I have to keep them bent.
    Others have bad backs, and good legs, and may not understand how one can put up with straight seats.

    I do feel though that seat reclining is for most a comfort issue, whereas decent leg space is actually a "preventing pain and health hazards" issue for a large chunk of the population.
    Last edited by millyskate; 12-10-2010 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by mon125 View Post
    In a recent trip, the guy in front of me reclined also all the way back and more. I do not know how he did it but somehow he was able to go even further. I am quite short and the seat was hitting my knees. I ask him very politely to please not to force the seat down. I was ok with him reclining all the way back as the seat normally does. However, I ended being verbally attacked by him and his wife. Well, a couple of hour later, one of the flight attendants noticed that he was way back (yes, it was that noticeable) and he told him that he could not force the seat down. This time he did not say anything and just reclined normally.
    How did he do it? I've had a couple of experiences where I was sure that the seat in front of me was reclined "too far," but I didn't really think it was possible. I mean, I know that if someone slams themselves down into the seat then it will recline pretty far and then bounce back up, but how did he keep it back that far permanently?
    Creating drama!

  6. #66
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    Is it feasible for airlines to raise the height of the seats? That would allow longer-legged passengers a bit more comfort.
    Oh god, I hope not, unless they can offer some short seats too. I'm 5'0" and I can't sit comfortably in the seat and reach the floor, as such, I have to point my toes to reach the floor, and thus, have my calves flexed the entire flight, which, a short lifetime of doing has me in physical therapy. Occasionally I'll sneak my carry on into that space and use it as a footstool, but usually a flight attendant will let me know I need to stow it properly Having spent a lifetime not being able to reach the floor all the way, really gives insight to why children behave so badly- it's uncomfortable to have nowhere for your legs to go. As an adult, I deal with it, kids often don't know how to. I do feel awful for tall people who have their knees jammed against the seat in front of them. I at least do have room to wiggle my legs around.

    I don't think there is anyway to make everyone comfortable.

    So your right to use your laptop supersedes the right of the person in front of you to be comfortable in his or her seat?
    I think the flushed out debate of larger people on planes has confirmed that people believe that when they buy a ticket they have purchased all the space between the two armrests. So what space did you buy when you bought the ticket? The space in front of your seat (meaning the lap top user should get preference) or the space behind you (the recliner is in the right?) I'm apt to believe you bought the space in front of you, and reclining is borrowing someone else's space, so I do think someone's work on a lap top supersedes a person who wants to recline, unless it's an overnight flight were the person NOT reclining is in the minority, and everyone else on the plane has reclined.

    Now, I wonder how often flight attendents have to handle disputes over this...

  7. #67
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    There are a handful of extra legroom seats on planes. They are usually somewhere between $50 $ $200 per seat (most commonly $100). The problem is that they become available 24 hours before the flight takes off. You really have to be on top of it to get them. My husband and I are willing to pay the extra $ for a long flight, we're both tall. It makes me crazy when I see those extra leg room seats taken by families with little kids. I think you should have to be over a certain height to get them !

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    So what space did you buy when you bought the ticket? The space in front of your seat (meaning the lap top user should get preference) or the space behind you (the recliner is in the right?) I'm apt to believe you bought the space in front of you, and reclining is borrowing someone else's space, so I do think someone's work on a lap top supersedes a person who wants to recline, unless it's an overnight flight were the person NOT reclining is in the minority, and everyone else on the plane has reclined.
    There's a reason why they only announce that seat backs must be upright on takeoff and landing: because at all other times you're allowed to have them back if you want to. You're not "borrowing someone else's space" if you recline, and if you want to get into an argument about air space, then the answer is your personal air space is one thing on takeoff and landing, and potentially different at other times.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  9. #69
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    There's One Thing I Wanna Know....

    As I fly ‘round
    This wicked world
    Searchin’ for light in the darkness of insanity.
    I ask myself
    Is all hope lost?
    Is there only pain and hatred and misery?

    And each time I feel like this inside,
    There’s one thing I wanna know:
    What’s so funny ‘bout peace love & granola? Ohhhh
    What’s so funny ‘bout peace love & granola?

    And as I walk on
    Another overbooked flight
    My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes
    So where are the strong
    And who are the trusted?
    And where is the harmony?
    Sweet harmony.

    ‘Cause each I hear someone complain, just makes me wanna cry.
    What’s so funny ‘bout peace love & granola? Ohhhh
    What’s so funny ‘bout peace love & granola?

    So where are the strong?
    And who are the trusted?
    And where is the harmony?
    Sweet harmony.

    ‘Cause each time I feel it slippin’ away, just makes me wanna cry.
    What’s so funny ‘bout peace love & granola? Ohhhh
    What’s so funny ‘bout peace love & granola? Ohhhh
    What’s so funny ‘bout peace love & granola?


  10. #70

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    After years of working on my laptop during flights--I have no problem with someone reclining in front of me. I'm more of a b#itch about someone bring a bodybag as a carry-on and taking all of the overhead space.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaPeach View Post
    I'm more of a b#tch about someone bring a bodybag as a carry-on and taking all of the overhead space.
    A-MEN to that.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaPeach View Post
    After years of working on my laptop during flights--I have no problem with someone reclining in front of me. I'm more of a b#itch about someone bring a bodybag as a carry-on and taking all of the overhead space.
    Unfortunately, that's not going to get any better, now that almost all airlines charge for checked bags. On my most recent trip, the organization would not pay for me to check a bag, so I was forced to stuff my case to the brim.

    Question: If someone reclines suddenly and without warning, damaging the laptop of the person behind them, is the recliner responsible for the damage? What if they damage the person's knees?

    Does anyone know the airlines' policies about this? If not, what should the policy be?

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    Unfortunately, that's not going to get any better, now that almost all airlines charge for checked bags. On my most recent trip, the organization would not pay for me to check a bag, so I was forced to stuff my case to the brim.

    Question: If someone reclines suddenly and without warning, damaging the laptop of the person behind them, is the recliner responsible for the damage? What if they damage the person's knees?

    Does anyone know the airlines' policies about this? If not, what should the policy be?
    I must have excellent luck because I have never in 15 years had a problem with my laptop and the person reclining in front of me--nor have I heard of any of my co-workers ever having a computer damage during a flight. Believe me if they had a problem, I would had heard Interesting question!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffisjeff View Post
    How did he do it? , but how did he keep it back that far permanently?
    Well, he was pretty heavy (but not obese) so he just position himself in order to push it backwards all the time. He was actively pushing the seat down and his head was literally in my lap (not kidding).

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaPeach View Post
    I must have excellent luck because I have never in 15 years had a problem with my laptop and the person reclining in front of me--nor have I heard of any of my co-workers ever having a computer damage during a flight. Believe me if they had a problem, I would had heard Interesting question!
    I've seen a few close calls. In one case, the jolt of the reclining seat sent the laptop sliding off the tray table. Of course, the seats were so tight that there was no place for it to go I also saw some major hinge-rattling of a laptop. The laptop was on the person's lap, and the rapid recline knocked the back of the laptop screen. I imagine that if the laptop were often subjected to that, it would break.

    As for me, a rapid recliner made my ginger ale spill, leaving me with a wet lap for the rest of the flight. Really, couldn't he have given me some advance notice?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffisjeff View Post
    How did he do it? I've had a couple of experiences where I was sure that the seat in front of me was reclined "too far," but I didn't really think it was possible. I mean, I know that if someone slams themselves down into the seat then it will recline pretty far and then bounce back up, but how did he keep it back that far permanently?
    Some seats are a bit broken and recline more than the others. But most normally functioning seats aren't designed to recline that far back.

    The worst recline situation is for a pregnant woman. I saw it once with the woman in the last row where the seats don't go back. While the woman wasn't completely trapped, it had to be uncomfortable for her. In those cases, I don't care how much it's your "right"--you don't do that to a pregnant woman
    Last edited by Gazpacho; 12-10-2010 at 11:00 PM.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    So your right to use your laptop supersedes the right of the person in front of you to be comfortable in his or her seat?
    That's putting words in my mouth and not what I said at all. For that matter, the person reclining actually makes me a lot less comfortable in my seat, so who has a bigger right in that case?

    Ultimately where I am coming from is that I personally get very little extra comfort out of putting my seat back but I get a lot of additional discomfort and inconvenience out of the person in front of me reclining. I assumed that result was fairly standard when I answered that it is rude (before I read the thread). I understand now that there may be people who actually do get significant additional comfort out of reclining, which surprised me. Once I'd read that, I said that I'm willing to make some allowances for that. I still think that anyone who has been on a plane sitting in front of me is rude in the way they do it. People here seem to have some suggestions for a more polite way to go about it.

  17. #77
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    Just FTR, I would never push my seat all of the way back, unless there was no one behind me. I know how uncomfortable it is when someone does that to me, and I don't want to do that to someone else. I do think it's rude to shove your seat all of the way back without checking the person behind you.

  18. #78
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    It would make sense to adjust the seats in the penultimate row so they can't recline as far as the other rows, since the seats behind can't go anywhere at all. I imagine that having to adjust one row of seats would add a lot to the cost per airplane, though.

    Re: someone's idea of letting people without carry-on baggage off the plane first...I would counter that and say let everyone sitting in the aisles off first. That wouldn't necessarily help me - in general I don't sit on the aisle (too little legroom) - but a person without carryon luggage who has to crawl over 2 people withcarry-ons isn't going to make the process any speedier.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmeck View Post
    You are making the assumption that the person sitting does not need the seat as much as the person standing.
    No I'm not. My sister has Multiple Sclerosis and she looks really normal. She has people come up to her in stores and berate her for using the power chairs, when they saw her walk into the building. I know all about people judging by looks.

    My point is that reclining or not reclining is not a matter of "right", it is a matter of manners and consideration. If I wanted to work using my laptop, but the person in front of me had a back or leg problem and needed to recline, I would not feel resentful. It would be courteous to allow that. And it would be courteous to keep your seat upright if you are in front of a tall person.

    Another comparable example would be if I was standing watching a parade, I would let children stand in front of me, rather than blocking their view.
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  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    You've hit the nail on the head. Post 9/11, flying has just become a gigantic cattle call. First you have to practically strip naked to pass through security, display your personal toiletries to the world in a one quart see-through ziploc bag (3-1-1 people!), get poked and prodded by TSA or worse, get x-rayed, and if you're really lucky, you get picked for a secondary screening.

    Then you get to your gate and chances are your flight is late, so when the equipment does arrive, they need to turn it around stat, which means at best a cursory cleaning. Then since most airlines have instituted a fee for checked baggage, everyone is trying to carry all their luggage on board, but there's not enough room for everyone's bags in the cabin, so that creates competition for overhead bin space, which in turn creates competition to board as early as possible so that you can beat someone else out for that last available overhead bin slot. And since airlines have cut back on the number of flights, the plane is almost always full to capacity, so you're literally cramped in all directions - by the seat and by your fellow passengers next to you.

    Add to that the fact that flights seem to be delayed far more often than they used to be, and it all adds up to a less than pleasant experience.
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