Who is the male version of Miki Ando?

[Extranjera]

4 different triples but ability to do 3 triple axels in one competition >> having the standard 5 womens triples but not doing any triple-triples (that get ratified)

ITA. Michelle Kwan also could land 5 kinds of triples and even triple-triple combination but I don't think someone considers her to be one of the strongest jumper.

[judgejudy27]

Atleast in 2007 there could be an argument for Miki being the best jumper but it is only an argument. As it is I am pretty sure Kim and Asada on a good day collected more points on jumps than she did. A good comparision would be the short program were Ando regularly ended up below Kim and Asada if all skated cleanly. And I think breaking down the protocals they both gained more points on jumps than her most times (despite Kim doing an easier triple-triple combo). Either way she was never hands down the best jumper like Joubert. And unlike Joubert, Ando atleast made an attempt to improve other areas of her skating over the years. So I agree they are different skaters.

Now it would be even be more unlikely since unlike 2007 she isnt doing any of the hard triple combinations she did then, especialy the triple lutz-triple loop. If she is it would only be because everything who matters is missing now.

[smarts1]

In terms of current ability, Yu Na Kim for sure. Possibly even Rochette. And last year Asada. Miki doesnt even do 3-3 combos anymore, atleast ones that are ratified.

Yuna can only jump with her toes. Her edge jumps are . Miki's really the only female out there who knows how to jump with edges and with toes.

Mao has odd technique on many of her jumps (which is why she's trying to fix them), and Rochette probably comes closest to Miki in term of jumps.

[judgejudy27]

What matters is how you collect points. Kim and a good Asada collect more points on their jumps than either Ando or Rochette, thus their jumps are "better" in a competitive sense. Kristi could only do toe jumps as well and she was still a better jumper than Kerrigan or Bonaly who could do all kinds of jumps.

[Squibble]

Samuel Contesti. He sleeps with his coach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Contesti

[ks777]

What matters is how you collect points. Kim and a good Asada collect more points on their jumps than either Ando or Rochette, thus their jumps are "better" in a competitive sense. Kristi could only do toe jumps as well and she was still a better jumper than Kerrigan or Bonaly who could do all kinds of jumps.

According to who? is that a fact or your assesment only? Kristi was never known for her jumping, if I remember correctly.

[igniculus]

Samuel Contesti. He sleeps with his coach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Contesti

PML!

[doubleflutz]

According to who? is that a fact or your assesment only? Kristi was never known for her jumping, if I remember correctly.

She landed 3LZ-3T back in the Dark Ages, before most ladies were even bothering with 3T-3T. Her jumps were quite small, but she was absolutely a better jumper than Kerrigan and Bonaly. I think she gets overlooked as a jumper, because her biggest domestic rival was Tonya Harding, and internationally it was Midori Ito, who were both so good at their peak, they could have won the Men's event, at least as far as jumping goes.

[pinky166]

Samuel Contesti. He sleeps with his coach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Contesti

Actually a good comparison, although Contesti probably is even more of a jumping bean than Miki (if that's possible) - his skating is really scratchy. He does usually do well for himself though and I'm sometimes at the PCS marks he gets. To me it seems like he has no flow and the skating skills of a novice, but the judges seem to think otherwise.

[judgejudy27]

According to who? is that a fact or your assesment only? Kristi was never known for her jumping, if I remember correctly.

Kristi's jumps were more valuable to points than either Kerrigan or Bonaly (well atleast while she and Bonaly competed head to head). Doing a triple lutz- triple toe that was quite consistent, and consistently landing 2 triple lutzes, and 5 or 6 triples, despite hardly ever landing an edge jump other than sometimes a triple loop, was of more value than what either Kerrigan or Bonaly who was comfortable doing each triple bar the triple axel was putting out on a regular basis. If competitions were just scored on jumps from 89-92, there probably still isnt a single competition Kerrigan or Bonaly would have beaten her, or if there is one feel free to point out which it was, despite Kristi's small jumps and being only a toe jumper. The fact Kerrigan who was somewhat competitive on the 2nd mark never did beat Kristi in that period already reflects that.

[smarts1]

Kristi's jumps were more valuable to points than either Kerrigan or Bonaly (well atleast while she and Bonaly competed head to head). Doing a triple lutz- triple toe that was quite consistent, and consistently landing 2 triple lutzes, and 5 or 6 triples, despite hardly ever landing an edge jump other than sometimes a triple loop, was of more value than what either Kerrigan or Bonaly who was comfortable doing each triple bar the triple axel was putting out on a regular basis. If competitions were just scored on jumps from 89-92, there probably still isnt a single competition Kerrigan or Bonaly would have beaten her, or if there is one feel free to point out which it was, despite Kristi's small jumps and being only a toe jumper. The fact Kerrigan who was somewhat competitive on the 2nd mark never did beat Kristi in that period already reflects that.

Well, Kerrigan never truly had a good training ethic before bombing her 93 Worlds LP, and Bonaly didn't really get stronger jumps until after the Olympics in Albertville (you know, her jumps were all over the place).

[judgejudy27]

Well, Kerrigan never truly had a good training ethic before bombing her 93 Worlds LP, and Bonaly didn't really get stronger jumps until after the Olympics in Albertville (you know, her jumps were all over the place).

Yes this is very true. Still being equally adapt at toe and edge jumps doesnt neccessarily make you a better jumper as far as competitive worth than someone who isnt. Kim if she jumps her best will still produce more points without a triple axel or triple loop will produce more points just out of jumps than even peak Miki Ando, let alone the current Miki Ando who doesnt do as difficult of jump combinations or as many triples as she used to. Likewise Asada with her 3 axels does not need to do all the triples to produce more points from jumps than Ando. Kim only has one really off triple of the main 5 anyway- the loop, and Kristi- the salchow, so it isnt that big a deal. It is not like Miki Ando ever was doing a triple axel or has done her quad since the dinosaurs roamed the earth either.

[ks777]

Well back to the topic, I still think Miki is a good jumper and not just ok jumper.

[sson4won]

Yuna can only jump with her toes. Her edge jumps are . Miki's really the only female out there who knows how to jump with edges and with toes.

Mao has odd technique on many of her jumps (which is why she's trying to fix them), and Rochette probably comes closest to Miki in term of jumps.

I don't want to argue about Yuna's jump here, but let me clarify this one.
Her Salchow and Axel are good. Not saying best(I think they are best though) but good enough call her an excellent jumper.


And I picked VDP cause when I saw this title his name just came up.

[MikiAndoFan#1]

I don't want to argue about Yuna's jump here, but let me clarify this one.
Her Salchow and Axel are good. Not saying best(I think they are best though) but good enough call her an excellent jumper.

Yu-Na's Salchow is definately not good. She doesn't achieve very much height on that jump and it just looks awkward. Even her Loop is better than her Salchow. Her Axel, however, is great.

[burntBREAD]

Yu-Na's Salchow is definately not good. She doesn't achieve very much height on that jump and it just looks awkward. Even her Loop is better than her Salchow. Her Axel, however, is great.

Yes, her Salchow is so low. I also agree that her loop is better. She just can't do her loop simply because of injury and her body structure, but it's actually a better jump. Her axel is definitely excellent, look at all the combos she can put off of that jump.

[pinky166]

Well back to the topic, I still think Miki is a good jumper and not just ok jumper.

Agreed. She won the FS today by quite a large margin, even though she was still only 5th overall. Also that 2a-3t is gorgeous and looks so easy for her, she really needs to start going for it every time.

[Lainerb]

In terms of current ability, Yu Na Kim for sure. Possibly even Rochette. And last year Asada. Miki doesnt even do 3-3 combos anymore, atleast ones that are ratified.

Miki's TES from jumps at GPF: 49.26

Rochette's TES from jumps at Japan Open: 41.98



Nearly the difference of a 3axel.

[chipso1]

Miki's TES from jumps at GPF: 49.26

Rochette's TES from jumps at Japan Open: 41.98



Nearly the difference of a 3axel.

Your point? Do you really think it's accurate to compare points from an event in early October (for which Rochette was a last minute replacement and obviously wasn't training full-out for)?

[judgejudy27]

Thats nice, so why not compare just their TES from jumps of both at the Japan Open. If Rochette was not a semi retired skater who competed all season she obviously would have improved a great deal as the season went along just like everyone else has, and just like she and others always have in the past. Heck the level of the ladies so far this season even someone like Rochette would have won everything so far, unless she had a splatfest somewhere along the way.