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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Because we are talking about QUALITY here, and that's what GOE reflects?
    the same could be said about the levels!! and even through Goe are importent because they can make a big difference.. I think the levels are much more accurate and important, since they reflect much better on the rule and if the skater does all the requirement things for the specific level they will automatically get credit for it. were in comparison goe are VERY subjective, judges can give between 0-2 goe for one and the same jump all depending on what they feel like giving the skater.

    there are skaters who have very much ice coverage and skaters with great height. and neiter one of them is neccesarry better then the other, but the judges seem to only give very high goe for skater who have both. which I personally find wrong because as long as the skater has the right take off, good rotation in the air, and right and solid landing they should also be creditet well for their jumps. but that's also depends what the judges feel like giving.

    mao has everything she has great flexibility on her spins, extended spirals , fast and diffecult step seq in both directions, beautiful position and lines, and right now, and her speed is getting much better. I actually wasn't that surprised that she didn't do well, because she has chosen to rework her technique on all her jumps, and that isn't gonna happen in a few month I mean to normally rework one jump could take a whole year.

    the only thing mao needs right now is time, I wouldn't be surprised if she endet up on the podium at worlds this year even with all the struggle she is going through right now, and if her new jumps have become more apart of her by then she could very well end up winning her third world title...

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by CantALoop View Post
    I'm disappointed because it really seemed like there were glints of hope that Mao was making progress during her summer training with Nagakubo. Those clips were very brief, but I remember seeing lutz attempts with actual counterrotation "spring" into them, decent attempts to hold a real BO edge, and Mao holding her landings and getting more flow out of them.

    I know from my and others' experiences that even if a skater is reworking their technique, old habits tend to come out during competition. That might be part of the reason why Mao shows no evidence of her summer improvements, but I'm shocked at how the bad habits are even worse.
    You're expecting way too much too soon. If the improvements show up in her competitive skating by the end of this season, I'll be very impressed.

    The clips you saw were elements done in practice, in isolation, not a skater doing a program in a competitive environment. There isn't time, in a competition, to focus on how you should be doing things. You only have time to do it, in time to the music, and on to the next element.

    All of her life she's done it wrong. How long does it take you to correct a bad habit? How often do you revert to your old ways, often without thinking. Muscle memory has to be broken down and replaced with new muscle memory using the correct technique so you don't have to think, just do.

    Mao is a worker. Even Raphael, known to be a coach who pushes his student very hard, was impressed with her work ethic. He said she'd spend her whole life on the ice if it was allowed. Because of her commitment and her work ethic, I have a lot of faith that Mao will be successful in making these changes. The girl wants to win.

  3. #63
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    I do get why she does it. I had a similar case in my dancing career. I've been a ballroom dancer for more than 10 years and been dancing other types of dances since I was 3. I was relatively successful at dancing competitions in the national level and had a good technique as it was. But about a year ago my coach decided (as I changed partners) that it was the right time to re-work everything, just to get rid of some bad habits. What we did for three months was basically learning how to move your body weight correctly (which means just plain steps to different directions) and how to rise to your toes in a healthier way. All this time we practised basically walking two hours a day, five times a week. But once we got it right and added the actual dancing there, we very quickly started dancing miles better than we ever had before. All aspects of our dancing improved significantly. I think what Mao is doing now is definitely risky but it could definitely improve all aspects of her jumps a lot.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantALoop View Post
    There's no doubt her training has been difficult and arduous, but it's those 20 minutes that count towards her world standings, medal count, and reputation.

    I'm disappointed because it really seemed like there were glints of hope that Mao was making progress during her summer training with Nagakubo. Those clips were very brief, but I remember seeing lutz attempts with actual counterrotation "spring" into them, decent attempts to hold a real BO edge, and Mao holding her landings and getting more flow out of them.

    I know from my and others' experiences that even if a skater is reworking their technique, old habits tend to come out during competition. That might be part of the reason why Mao shows no evidence of her summer improvements, but I'm shocked at how the bad habits are even worse.
    In hindsight, I wonder how many times she had to try the jumps before they could successfully got them on video. Perhaps if she kept practising and doing just the flip, she might get it on her 3rd or 4th try. But it's such a ambitious layout that she has in the actual competition - she is trying all 6 triples now - there are bound to be failures even if she didn't have jump technique problems. She experienced the same last season when for the first time she was trying a 3axel in the sp and 2 3axels in the lp, even though she has had the 3axel down for several seasons already.

    But I rather she had these horrible performances out of her system, so she can now focus on delivering for Nationals and (hopefully) Worlds.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    You're expecting way too much too soon. If the improvements show up in her competitive skating by the end of this season, I'll be very impressed.

    The clips you saw were elements done in practice, in isolation, not a skater doing a program in a competitive environment. There isn't time, in a competition, to focus on how you should be doing things. You only have time to do it, in time to the music, and on to the next element.

    All of her life she's done it wrong. How long does it take you to correct a bad habit? How often do you revert to your old ways, often without thinking. Muscle memory has to be broken down and replaced with new muscle memory using the correct technique so you don't have to think, just do.

    Mao is a worker. Even Raphael, known to be a coach who pushes his student very hard, was impressed with her work ethic. He said she'd spend her whole life on the ice if it was allowed. Because of her commitment and her work ethic, I have a lot of faith that Mao will be successful in making these changes. The girl wants to win.
    Exactly. I've been trying to go into my axel (that's a *single* axel, mind you) with a little more speed and it totally screws up my timing and technique on the takeoff. I can't even imagine trying to make adjustments to a triple axel, much less reworking the technique on every jump! I say she needs two seasons to complete this process and get the changes into her muscle memory. Good for her, though. This is just one reason she has my respect more than any other skater out there.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    But I rather she had these horrible performances out of her system, so she can now focus on delivering for Nationals and (hopefully) Worlds.
    If she is back to form by Nationals or even Worlds, I'll faint with shock. Even Mao has said, she's not worried about her results this season. Given the number of times she has talked about this in interviews, and the number of people who have posted in this thread that relearning technique at this stage of her career is a long, long, process, I'm surprised that people are still expecting her to retain her title this year.

    If she is back to form by 2012 Nationals or Worlds, I'll be one happy skating fan.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I'm surprised that people are still expecting her to retain her title this year.
    Retain title - no. But at least not fall twice and pop 3 jumps per competition.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by vodkashot View Post
    Out of curiosity, which one of Mao's endorsement contracts were cancelled?
    According to the Sankei Sports, it was a chocholate commercial.

  9. #69
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    It's stupid to think a world-class skater like Mao can afford 2 years in the dark to 'retool' her jumps.


    She'll be left in the dust by international judges...

  10. #70
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    I think it's a good idea to fix her jumps,but it's really a bad idea to compete before she can handle all the changes.If she do want to do it ,she should take a season off.keep doing this in competitions can only make the judges give her lower and lower scores day after day...and maybe she should find another coach more fit her...

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by luCN View Post
    I think it's a good idea to fix her jumps,but it's really a bad idea to compete before she can handle all the changes.If she do want to do it ,she should take a season off.keep doing this in competitions can only make the judges give her lower and lower scores day after day...and maybe she should find another coach more fit her...
    Oh please, she's only been working with Mr. Sato for a short time.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    Oh please, she's only been working with Mr. Sato for a short time.
    ITA. Mao really does not need another coaching change.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundas View Post
    It's stupid to think a world-class skater like Mao can afford 2 years in the dark to 'retool' her jumps.
    She'll be left in the dust by international judges...
    Well, I think there are 2 kinds of "afford". Finanacially, she has done very well with endorsement deals, even if she loses a few. Though I have no numbers, I doubt money is a problem.

    The second kind of "afford" is respect from the judges. Again, I don't think this is a problem. When a skater starts doing well, she gets high scores, even if she has done poorly before. Look at Carolina and Kiira.

  14. #74
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    And landing jumps in practice are different from competitions, especially from a mental aspect.
    I respect Mao's ambition and work ethic, wish her all the best.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    Oh please, she's only been working with Mr. Sato for a short time.
    Plus she and Kozuka are soo cute together, they just have to become a couple! Apparently he is very protective of Mao

  16. #76

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    Mao is not going to lose the respect of the judges. She will simply no longer receive the benefit of the doubt. If she makes mistakes she will not win, which is quite fair anyway. Her skating skills were marked too highly before, IMO. If she skates well she will get the big marks.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Asada isn't reworking anything.
    The whole thing is just a pythetic PR campaigh to sugarcoat the miserable state she is in.


    I can't deny your opinion.
    Last edited by Jenny81; 02-16-2011 at 02:57 PM.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by luCN View Post
    I think it's a good idea to fix her jumps,but it's really a bad idea to compete before she can handle all the changes.If she do want to do it ,she should take a season off.keep doing this in competitions can only make the judges give her lower and lower scores day after day...and maybe she should find another coach more fit her...
    Taking a season off is not necessarily a good idea either. Skaters who have done so, come back much the worse off. Their skills are not as sharp and the rest of the field can easily catch up and pass them.

    It takes a really special athlete to undertake this change and to not lose heart after the inevitable setbacks. Mao looks happy and focussed. She knows it's working.

    I consider Mr. Sato one of the best technical coaches in the world. His skaters have the very best feet out there and already there has been an enormous improvement.

    The judges will give her the scores when she gets there.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by dundas View Post
    It's stupid to think a world-class skater like Mao can afford 2 years in the dark to 'retool' her jumps.


    She'll be left in the dust by international judges...
    Why can't Mao afford that, what exactly does Asada have to lose? Mao has won everything in this sport, she could possibly win already-except for the Olympics. Short term if she kept her jumps the same, she'd likely win another world title or two. But I'm not sure she can keep the jumps the same, and expect to beat the talented Juniors we see coming up in Sochi.

    If Asada comes back with improved jumps, she's going to have nothing BUT respect from everyone. I respect her for trying to be the best skater she can be. But I think she'll have everyones respect for trying even if it doesn't work. And she'll know she did everything she possibly could.

    Mao is doing what a champion does, she is working to get better rather than stagnating.
    Last edited by bek; 02-20-2011 at 03:16 AM.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    If she is back to form by Nationals or even Worlds, I'll faint with shock.
    Well, after watching 4CC, it seems that she is back to form. Start fainting then!

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