Last edited by DORISPULASKI; 12-01-2010 at 06:33 AM. Reason: spelling
Is there also an issue with needing to have at least three of the disciplines represented? It wouldn't be really hard to add a small singles segment to either Lake Placid or Indy, but it is a little strange.
The other issue around Lake Placid and Indy is that a lot of teams will go just to see how they stack up against a decent level of competition. If these competitions become "B" events, entry would be by federation assignment so the new teams looking to get a feel for their placements would be completely left out since assignments would go to established teams with track records.
There are precious few development competitions for Pairs as it is and I would hate to see a wide open Pairs event restricted in this regard.
Often at least the host country has more than three entries.
Does/Would the ISU have any rules about entries from other countries?
Wasn't it mentioned earlier in this thread that there's at least one ice dance-only event that's sanctioned for purposes of earning ISU minimum scores?Is there also an issue with needing to have at least three of the disciplines represented? It wouldn't be really hard to add a small singles segment to either Lake Placid or Indy, but it is a little strange.
1) Let the host country (the US in the case of LPIDC and Indy Pairs) allow any of their own teams to enter, at their own expense, with no limits. And no funding even for envelope teams. Entries from other countries could either be chosen by and paid for by their federations or open entries at their own expense. That may be a determination that can be made on a case by case basis between each federation and their teams.
2) Hold an international ISU-sanctioned event with limited entries at the same location in the same week as the open event. Wasn't this done with several of the NACs?
Remember that these competitions also have junior and novice and lower level events also. Would the junior event also be ISU sanctioned for international entries?
In Seniors, there don't seem to be more than 3 teams from the same country (however, how many senior teams are there for Germany nowadays). However, in Juniors, there are 8 German teams, so it looks unrestricted there.
Furthermore, it could be by invitation for foreign teams: the Japan Open is by invitation only.
The requirement appears to be that enough skaters from enough countries are covered.
Moscow to Prague: 2hrs, 40min
Moscow to Frankfurt: 3hr, 20min
Moscow to Paris: 3hr, 55min
Moscow to Helsinki: 1hr, 40min
Timezone difference: 1-2 hrs.
NYC to Prague*: 10+ hrs with one connection
NYC to Frankfurt: 10hr
NYC to Paris: 7hr, 20min
NYC to Helsinki: 8hr, 5min
Add 2-4 hours to get to a NYC airport from Delaware or connection through Philadelphia.
Timezone difference: 6-7 hours.
Detroit to Prague: 11-13+ hours with connection
Detroit to Frankfurt: 8hr, 25min
Detroit to Paris: 7hr, 55min
Detroit to Helsinki*: 12+ hours with one connection, 14-18 hours with two.
Timezone difference: 6-7 hours
Denver to Prague: 14-16+ hours, two connections
Denver to Frankfurt: 9hr, 55min
Denver to Paris: 12-14+ hours, one connection
Denver to Helsinki: 15-20+ hours, two connections
Timezone difference: 8-9 hours
*There may be direct flights a couple of times a week, but none on the Tuesday in January 2011 that I used for Expedia searches
Any additional travel is equal for competitors, but the comparison between traveling from a major European hub where the skaters live -- less than four hours to most European hubs -- and a skater who lives near one of the major US hubs -- is stark, not only in terms of flight hours, but also in terms of jet lag. By contrast, a senior B in Detroit would be 0-3 hours in timezone difference and less than four hours from most US hub cities.
Exceptions, i.e., new teams that have no minimum scores, would almost never make it worth it for USFS to host a senior B event: it would be cheaper to send one or two teams to Europe, even if it disrupts their training schedule. However, the ability to get early monitoring for a bulk of their skaters should, IMO. The event could take place in late summer or early fall, since most of the teams would not be participating in Grand Prix or European Senior B's.
Last edited by kwanfan1818; 12-01-2010 at 07:13 PM.
The piece is seventy-five minutes long...[l]ong enough for an idea to be developed, but not so long that one starts to measure the number of seats to the exits with desperation if the thing doesn’t work" -- Marina Harss
Sylvia quoted the defining section of ISU Comm 1629 about what makes a Senior B that counts for World Standings points:
So: you must have at least 6 dance teams1.4 International Senior Competitions, provided there are minimum 8 single skaters, respectively 6 Ice Dance couples out of four ISU Members present respectively 5 Pairs out of three ISU Members.
1.5 Events, mentioned under paragraph 1.4, in which the Technical Panel (Technical Controller and the two (2) Technical Specialists) are from three (3) different ISU Members. (It is recommended that participating ISU Members, before entering their skaters, check with the organizing Members of International Competitions whether this requirement will be fulfilled).
1.6 Regional International Competition (e.g. Nordics, Asian Winter Games etc.) or competitions, which are open only for special groups of skaters (e.g. Universiade, events with invitations only to designated Members (except the ISU Grand Prix events), etc.) will not count for the ISU World Standings/Season’s World Ranking (The International Competitions falling into this category will be identified in the Event Calendar published on the ISU website www.isu.org).
you must have at least 4 member countries represented in dance
You must use ISU supplied tech panel with members from 3 different countries.
You must not be just regional-i.e. block some countries from participating.
In pairs, it's 6 pairs and 3 countries-Indy pairs would easily qualify.
So the "expense" is that you have to pay the travel expenses of the tech panel, which is cheaper, I'd think than sending 3 teams overseas.
LPIDC would fit this just fine.
The first paragraph is a little confusing, but since NRW Dance is sanctioned, it is obviously not necessary to have all disciplines represented in the same week at the same competition.
I don't know why somebody hasn't filed an application with the ISU to make LPIDC & Indy Pairs sanctioned Senior B's..
Mexico has hosted several JGP could they hold a Senior B
I want to thank you Lord for being with me so far this day. With your help, I have not been inpatient, lost my temper been grumpy or envious of anyone. But I will be getting out of bed in a minute and I think I will really need your help then. Amen
But a Senior B serves much the same purpose ("to receive initial feedback and critiques on programs, technical details, etc. ").
When you are considering sending someone all the way to Europe, on the Federation's dime, you want them to be more prepared than they are at LP. But if gKelly's scenario is put into place, what's the harm in letting new teams achieve their qualifying score and more accomplished teams get some world ranking points?
"Puccini cries out for spirals, but really good ones." ~ Dick Button, 1998 Worlds
LOL, I obviously agree with you.
I also think that a North American Senior B for dance or pairs in September would have more trouble drawing the requisite "foreigners" from Europe. There are established Senior B events in Europe in Sept and Oct.
But ...in the summer, there wouldn't be competition from these other events. Also, don't some European teams train in North America, or at least spend some time in the summer traveling to NA for work with coaches based here?
"Puccini cries out for spirals, but really good ones." ~ Dick Button, 1998 Worlds
Upthread, I made a quick list of the dancers training in the US-
Heck, you could get the extra countries all within Detroit alone, if you wanted.
Pairs, you don't need as many countries, but it's trickier.
Obviously, you've got US and Canada.
The above team from Chinese Taipei trained with Peter Oppegard last year (bio not updated this year)
Crenshaw & Tsagris (Greece) trained in the US last year.
Montalbano & Krasnopolski (ISR) train in the US in Hackensack
Della Monica & Kocon (ITA) train in Montreal
Takahashi & Tran (JPN) train in Canada
Jorg & Koenderink (NED) trained last year in Canada
Additionally, you have teams that are choreographed by people here in the US.
Still, a pairs comp would be more difficult to attract competitors-
Still, if you threw the competition convenient to where Takahashi and Tran train, you'd get 3 countries, which is all you need.
It's a good question and topic, though.
They need to have someone committed to the YES answer (coaches, skaters) and not the NO answer (USFS) if they want to get it done. I suggest they ask Marina Zoueva about helping to get it done.
I think that as long as "making money for the host club" is a consideration, it won't happen in the US.