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  1. #21
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    I really wanted to enjoy this show, but I had to turn it off after about 25 minutes because I couldn't listen to the music one second longer.
    Voidy Swan, Dirty Carmen, Perverted Moonlight Sonata. God I love figure skating!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Is this the show that Manheim Steamroller play the music for the entire show? If so it's not worth watching on TV since Every. Single. Performance. will be chopped up by the camera panning to the musicians and we will see random bits of skating interspersed with random bits of the musicians.
    I agree with you 1 million percent!!!

  3. #23

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    As far as "chopped up" shows are concerned, I have to disagree. While I rather see 100% skating too, it is this or nothing - and I don't want nothing. Disson has a multi-show contract with NBC (including the Stars On Ice broadcast) and that's many more shows than might otherwise be on TV if it was 'skating only.' Look at what has happened to skating, even competitive skating, on US TV in the past years - skating is always desperate for a place to be at all.

    Yes, it is hard to be thankful for edited performances but I am very thankful because the alternative is no skating at all.

    Not only are many of these shows very enjoyable (I understand of course that musical tastes differ), they also give our best professional skaters employment opportunities that would simply not be there otherwise.
    Last edited by Willowway; 11-29-2010 at 03:31 PM.

  4. #24

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    I'm with you, Willoway!
    I'm grateful for what is broadcast; for all the reasons you mentioned.

  5. #25
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    I tried to watch but I just can't. The cuts to the muscicians ruin it for me.

    I watched a few of the programs, fast forwarded a lot, and finally gave up at the halfway point and deleted it.

    I guess for me, between cutting constantly to a musician, or nothing, I'd take nothing.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post

    I guess for me, between cutting constantly to a musician, or nothing, I'd take nothing.
    Me too. I just can't watch random scraps of a skating performance. I'm unable to get involved it.

    I actually find it disrespectful to the skaters performance to only show random bits of it. Wonder how the musicians would feel if we only got to hear random bits of their performance?

    While I agree with all your points Willowway I find there is no excuse for chopping up the skaters performance, or even the visual of the musicians performance - a split screen would do the trick. Heck even the (pretty bad) Directors of Photography at TEB could give us a split screen of skater and coach during a performance. It's not rocket science, and I think there's no excuse for what the Disson shows do.

  7. #27
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    Thanks for speaking up, Willowway. I personally don't think the skaters have time to watch these shows, and are there to perform for the live audience. I think they understand that it is necessary to show both performances (musical and skating). That's just the way it is! For every person that complains on this board, I hope there are twenty that actually enjoy the shows. It is a free country and you don't have to watch. You say there is "no excuse" for what they do, but perhaps it is the choice of Disson/NBC/IMG and producers, etc. to air the show this way, as has been done for over ten years... But for those of you so adamant about a split screen, I wonder if there's a show from Europe or somewhere that can be found on YouTube so we can see if this would really be the awesome solution that everyone claims it to be! Would love to see it if it can be found...

    As for me, I say - Go Disson! And all your sponsors! And musicians who perform in their shows! And people who attend! And your fab skaters

  8. #28
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    I have the show tivo'd and didn't watch it yet, but my Mom called me to say how much she enjoyed it - and I don't think she was expecting to like it that much.
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  9. #29

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    Hi folks,

    Interesting discussion. I have written to Steve Disson who is a very nice guy about the why of this. I am sure that over the years he and his editors have considered other broadcast formats so I asked if he wouldn't mind explaining the obvious decision (my assumption) to stay with the 'cutting to and from' model.

    If you split the screen literally either horizontally or vertically it just doesn't work at all. So a screen within a screen would be the option. But who chooses who gets to be the dominant screen for the number? Just a thought.

    Anyhow, I'll be interested to hear from Steve and I told him it was for this discussion and so will post it.

    Beyond that - everyone is, as always, entitled to their opinion but I'd rather have what I saw yesterday on NBC than nothing. Granted, I attended the show too and am happy to do that. Even though it was full (you rock Rapid City!) very few folks (comparatively) actually get the opportunity to be in the arena. But from what I understand many folks, as roxynova suggested, really enjoy these skaters via these shows - and that can only be good for skating.

  10. #30
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    I don't mind the cutting to the musicians as much as I mind all the skaters skating to Manheim Steamroller twice each. It would be like watching 20 tango programs in a row. I don't mind the Disson shows, but it gets annoying when there is no variety in music at all.

  11. #31

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    You might not like a lot of Mannheim Steamroller but what else were they supposed to skate to? It was a Mannheim Steamroller concert and believe me, most of the folks in the audience in Rapid City (and I imagine on TV too) were there for them not the skating (although they seemed to appreciate the skating when they saw it). It was sort of a big deal that Brian skated to another piece of music for one of his programs. I enjoy about ten minutes of them at a time but their CD sales (especially for Christmas) are simply phenomenal so they were the 'main event' and there is no getting around that one.

    The variety is not 'within' some of the shows if there is a headline musical act. I agree that if you don't like or love the musical act you might be in trouble - if you had only seen me during the Michael Bolton show (I went because Ilia was skating). I was in serious pain, but that was the price to see my favorite skater skate. Ilia (and some of the other skaters) were worth it to me but it wouldn't have been my choice. Hey, it's never perfect.
    Last edited by Willowway; 11-29-2010 at 10:10 PM.

  12. #32

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    I actually enjoyed this Disson show.
    (I liked Improv on Ice, too)

    They're really kind of fun .... and the skaters in the commercials are very entertaining.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Is this the show that Manheim Steamroller play the music for the entire show? If so it's not worth watching on TV since Every. Single. Performance. will be chopped up by the camera panning to the musicians and we will see random bits of skating interspersed with random bits of the musicians.
    Oh, goodie - a place to rant! I had to stop watching it. (I did DVR it, so I'll skim through it next weekend to see if I can catch any actual skating.) How many chances do we get to see Katia, Ilia and Yuka Sato skate anymore and have it ruined by watching someone hitting a drum or playing a guitar. If I wanted to WATCH someone play a flutophone, I would go to the local grade school Christmas concert. Geez Louise!!!!! Why do they advertise this as a skating show? Why not advertise it as a concert (ANY of these shows in the last however many years with live performers) where there might be some skating in front of them? Grrrrrr. Even if I were so inclined to go the Manheim Steamroller performance here in January, I would not be expecting to watch people play their instruments close up. It was great to listen to, great music to skate to. Why do we have to watch the musicians when they are there for the skaters?

    The one part I managed to sit through without any band interruptions was Brian Boitano skating to Imagine. What's wrong with him? Are his knees bothering him? He kept lifting one leg up stiffly like he had a cramp. Is that his latest idea of choreography. Very disappointing.

  14. #34
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    I understand the live musicians are needed to sell tickets, and that skating is not a big enough draw on it's own. So - fabulous idea to have concerts where both musicians and skaters can showcase their work. Fabulous idea. It's the translation to TV that's the problem.

    And so I say again - I think it's disrespectful to the skaters to chop their performances up into random bits. I wonder how the musicians would feel if their performance was chopped up into random bits. Music is not primarily a visual performance. As someone earlier in the post said, even if they were at the concert they would not see close ups of guitars, etc.

  15. #35
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    Had this not been Mannheim Steamroller but my favorite recording artist, I would have had to attend the show twice: once to concentrate on the singer, and once to concentrate on the skating.

    IMO they did a much better job editing this show for television than I have seen in many past shows, but I agree with you, alilou, it is the translation to TV that is the problem.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan1 View Post

    The one part I managed to sit through without any band interruptions was Brian Boitano skating to Imagine. What's wrong with him? Are his knees bothering him? He kept lifting one leg up stiffly like he had a cramp. Is that his latest idea of choreography. Very disappointing.
    Well, Brian is 47 years old. Who knows what is cramping or hurting? Better question--at the level he is still performing, what isn't cramping or hurting??

    I'm willing to cut him a lot of slack!

  17. #37

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    Steve Disson did answer. They have looked at split screen treatment and it doesn't work for them - I'm not surprised as the proportions of the TV image just don't lend themselves to division.

    As someone suggested above, if anyone has seen a TV treatment of two images that they think might work they should send an example along to him. TV producers are always looking for a better way to do things and if there is one, I imagine that Steve would give it a long, fair look.

  18. #38
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    It is a free country and you don't have to watch.
    The "it's a free country" thing goes both ways.

    We have a right to complain, just as Disson has a right to ignore us.

    I record every show hoping I'll find some enjoyable skating- I really loved the first half of improv ice.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    Steve Disson did answer. They have looked at split screen treatment and it doesn't work for them - I'm not surprised as the proportions of the TV image just don't lend themselves to division.

    As someone suggested above, if anyone has seen a TV treatment of two images that they think might work they should send an example along to him. TV producers are always looking for a better way to do things and if there is one, I imagine that Steve would give it a long, fair look.
    Oh this is good news Willowway. Last I heard about this from Mr Disson was a poster here (maybe a year or two ago) saying they'd asked about this issue and his reply had been "it's my show and I'll do what I want", so good to hear he/they are aware of the problem and willing to listen.

    If you'd be so kind as to pass on to him some suggestions I have I'd appreciate it.

    1. I do acknowledge the issue with TV screen proportions and having a split screen but surely it could be used some of the time, for instance when the skater(s) is spinning (and therefore staying in one place for a few seconds) I would think a split screen would be fine and give an opportunity to show the musicians without losing the skater.

    2. Keep the focus on the skaters for the whole performance with the musicians in a inset box in the upper left corner (or any corner really, but for some reason that seems the best one). This also wouldn't have to be for the whole performance, but for part of it as a way to keep the skating performance continuous. Often the cut to the musicians is to only one of them, or to hands on a guitar, or to the singers face - we don't need to see that in full screen so a box would be fine to keep the connection with the musical performance.

    3. I've also seen quite frequently a fade in/fade out where you actually see both images at the same time. I would even be happy if this happened for the whole performance (at least happier than what we get at the moment) because I just keep my eyes focused on the skater regardless of what else is on the screen. Those that wish to could focus on the musicians. But I'm not really recommending this for the whole performance, just as another idea of what could be done for part of the performance so the continuity of the skaters performance is not lost.

  20. #40

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    [QUOTE- I really loved the first half of improv ice.][/QUOTE]

    Me, too. I so enjoy skaters skating to current music. (Even if they would never have picked that particular piece for themselves)

    I wish more skaters did exhibitions to current music.

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