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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I don't believe that he will ever really transfer. I hope not. It seems a little selfish to take the honeymoon money & very cowardish.
    The previews for next week show Kurt wearing the Dalton Academy uniform...

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I don't believe that he will ever really transfer. I hope not. It seems a little selfish to take the honeymoon money & very cowardish.
    After watching the interaction between Kurt and Karofsky (which was pretty disturbing IMO), I can honestly understand why Kurt would want to leave. I didn't see it as being cowardly at all. The impression I got was that Kurt honestly believed that Karofsky would hurt him badly since Kurt knew his "secret". I don't think I would be so brave to stay either.

  3. #63

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    When people are in a situation where they seriously feel that their life is threatened, then how is it cowardly to leave? It's like calling refugees who escaped a war where they were targeted cowards for leaving.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    I'd like to see an episode that is all about the "Glee Club" again. I think the Kurt versus Rachel for the solo is one of my favourite moments from the show.

    Spoiler




    While I do love the character development and more outside episodes, I do miss the old Glee Club episodes too.

  5. #65
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    I'm more confused than ever. Is Mary Sue a bad thing? It doesn't sound like it from the link. But, it seems that it is a bad thing from other's reactions. Help!

  6. #66

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    Mary Sue is not considered to be a good thing. Writing a character after an perfected version of yourself is pretty lame!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy L View Post
    Mary Sue is not considered to be a good thing. Writing a character after an perfected version of yourself is pretty lame!
    Okay, I didn't get that from what I read. Is Bella a perfected version of Stephenie Meyer? I'm not challenging, just asking.

  8. #68

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    I remember the Mary Sue thing being a big problem with a lot of Harry Potter fan fiction where Harry fell in love with a fictionalized girl (usually American) who you knew was just the author putting herself into the story.

    The Simpsons did a funny take on it when Lisa asks JK Rowling what will happen to Harry Potter (this is before the 7th book came out) and JK Rowling angrily replies "He grows up and marries you, is that what you want?" Then Lisa happily sighs and says "yes."
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Okay, I didn't get that from what I read. Is Bella a perfected version of Stephenie Meyer? I'm not challenging, just asking.
    I don't know much about Stephenie Meyer, but just the name Bella Swan is a big flashing Mary Sue sign. There's a pretty swan girl who's is quirky but rather popular and a super hot sexy guy with magical powers is obsessed and totally in love with her. One of the biggest challenges in their relationship is that omg they're like too in love with each other. It's Mary Sue-ish to me, but it's all just not my bag so I'm not a Twilight authority by any means.

    Okay, so how much OT can we get?

  10. #70
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    Still puzzled, but now really not getting how Kurt is a Mary Sue. I'm old, humor me these concepts are difficult for me to grasp. Or, maybe they are just too banal (I hope) .

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordCirque View Post
    To say he is a Mary Sue because of the bullying SL is down right insulting.
    Did I ever say that? He's been veering toward Sue/Stu-ness for awhile now, and this storyline just sent it over the edge.

    First of all, it's painfully obvious that he's Ryan Murphy's author avatar, and he's using this character to right every wrong that he faced in high school.

    Secondly, aside from one throw-away mention that he may not have been entirely innocent in Theatricality, the time he's allowed to face criticism is when it comes from a one-dimensional villian in order to set up a moral lesson and make everyone feel sorry for him. As this article points out, Kurt has done his share of bullying in the past. Why not point that out, have Kurt be forced to confront that aspect of himsel as a result of what's happening to him? Actual layered, complex drama, rather than the constant victimization of poor St. Kurt? But I guess in the Glee-verse it's only bullying if it involves violence and death threats.

    This episode, though, pretty muched closed the case for me, starting with fact that the wedding between Burt and Carol was literally all about Kurt, right down to the vows. But the worst example came at the end. A classic symptom of a Mary Sue is when other characters start acting out of character in order to prop them up, and if SUE FREAKING SYLVESTER, the ultimate villian in the Glee-verse, martyring herself because she's just so upset about the Plight of Kurt doesn't fill that requirement, than I'm not sure what could.


    Actually, most of my criticisms are summed up pretty well here. I particularly like this part:

    Bullying is wrong no matter who is getting bullied. Even if Kurt was a horrible person, like someone who relentlessly hit on his future step brother even though his future step brother made it abundantly clear he did not welcome his advances, he shouldn't get bullied. BG Kurt is still a pretty cool and strong guy, but we don't have to keep going on and on about it. Constantly extolling his virtues (and there are many) is making him the most unlikable person on the show.
    Last edited by AshleyN; 11-25-2010 at 02:15 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I'm more confused than ever. Is Mary Sue a bad thing? It doesn't sound like it from the link. But, it seems that it is a bad thing from other's reactions. Help!
    I can only speak for myself, but in general I find Mary Sue's either boring (when they're written as being perfect), or unbelievable frustrating (when they do have faults, but the author simply refuses to acknowledge them). I'd far prefer a character with actual flaws and depth (which is probably why Rachel has already been my favourite Glee character - she's both wonderfully flawed and the only character who actually gets called on her faults on a regular basis).

    Also, a lot Mary Sue's tend to face backlash from the fans if they feel like they're being told to love the character, rather than being shown why they should.
    Last edited by AshleyN; 11-25-2010 at 02:30 AM.

  13. #73
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    I did find it weird that the wedding was all about Kurt right down to the vows and best man's speech and the dance. Now that I've read the Mary Sue concept I have to say I agree!

    However I didn't find Sue's reaction to Kurt strange or out of character. Behind her villainous behaviors, she still considers herself an educator and do still care for the students. We've seen that from the Regionals, her stance on the Rocky Horror, Britney Spears, etc.

    From the article:

    This show used to be about an idealistic teacher trying to help a group of misfits find their voice through show choir. Now it's all about a kid who is bullied at a school where there are a few less-important misfits in a show choir that never seems to rehearse for the upcoming sectionals, and an annoying teacher with the worst boundaries on the planet.
    Wow I totally agree with this! It seems every episode Mr. Shue will say his obligatory "We gotta get ready for sectionals" and this time it's suppose to be "next week". I still love the show though, but I do want to have a more ensemble balanced show.
    Last edited by walei; 11-25-2010 at 02:41 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    However I didn't find Sue's reaction to Kurt strange or out of character. Behind her villainous behaviors, she still considers herself an educator and do still care for the students. We've seen that from the Regionals, her stance on the Rocky Horror, Britney Spears, etc.
    That and the fact that she's been there herself.. she's stood up for her sister when people picked on her. She acknowledged that teenagers can be mean. I also think that probably a little part of her wants to be the only bully in the school lol.

  15. #75

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    Sectionals scene preview from next week's episode:

    Spoiler


  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    Wow I totally agree with this! It seems every episode Mr. Shue will say his obligatory "We gotta get ready for sectionals" and this time it's suppose to be "next week". I still love the show though, but I do want to have a more ensemble balanced show.
    Santana gets a solo next week: full song preview

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    Jock gay is going to end up as Kurt's bf. I haven't any spoiler info, but that is my guess... either that or he offs himself.
    I swear, I will stop watching if Kurt actually dates Karofsky after Karofsky threatened to kill him. I can accept a lot of wacky storylines, but that one is just plain ridiculous. Unless Glee wants to do a domestic violence plot

    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    I don't think the fans of Twilight dislike Bella, but poor Ginny might be a list-topper for Harry Potter.
    I hated Twilight because of what a limp, lame cypher Bella Swan was. Oh, and it is poorly written. And contains terrible messages for young girls. But a lot because of Bella.

    Bella Swan = Stephenie Meyer

  18. #78
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    Oh for crying out loud. Regardless of how Kurt acted toward him, and YES it was badly, but Finn was an absolute ASS to Kurt. Not only in how he reacted to Kurt, but how he reacted to Karofsky, or NOT when everyone else did.

    So Kurt all of a sudden deserves what Karofsky is dishing out now because he went overboard with Finn and hasn't been nice to Rachel all the time?????

    And you know what, I found it nice that after all Kurt has been through, that they showed that there are people that actually DO support and accept Kurt exactly the way he is, and celebrate those parts of him. What the HELL is so wrong with that? Especially from Finn because that has been a very tough relationship for Kurt to deal with. So to show Finn REALLY accepting him was a great character moment for BOTH of them.

    Sue's standing up for Kurt wasn't out of character at all. She has shown signs of this from time to time through out the show. Anyone care to remember who she ACTUALLY voted for the win Regionals? Or that it was HER that convinced Figgans to keep Glee Club around. Plus Kurt was a Cheerio, so there will SOME shred of loyalty to him there.

    Maybe if television had more scenes like this with gay characters, and showed young gay viewers, who make a large portion of the viewing audience of this show may I remind you, that there ARE people who care, that there ARE people who will accept them, that there are people who LIKE them, particularly in their families and outside the LGBT community, MAYBE THEY WOULDN'T BE KILLING THEMSELVES IN DROVES! In case you hadn't noticed there have been close to 20 suicides of youth 13-19 in past 6 months. And yes, I whole heartedly believe that scenes and episodes like this may help save a life or two, or at least for a little while, let a young gay boy that is tortured at school in much the same way Kurt is, believe that there might actually be hope for him and that maybe it won't be so bad some day. Let them pretend to be Kurt in that situation for a little while.

    Why is Kurt being portrayed as a victim? BECAUSE HE IS ONE!

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordCirque View Post
    So Kurt all of a sudden deserves what Karofsky is dishing out now because he went overboard with Finn and hasn't been nice to Rachel all the time?????
    Find me ONE person in this thread who had said that Kurt "deserves" to be bullied. I dare you.


    And do you honestly not believe that a character can't be both a victim and a complex character with real, human flaws? Because that's all I'm asking for. For me at least, that character would be far more compelling than Kurt right now.

  20. #80
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    No, on the contrary, I completely believe they can be a victim and have flaws. And they have been very up front about Kurt's flaws, of being materialistic and somewhat snobbish, of being over bearing toward Finn.

    Just because characters aren't beating him over the head with a paddle because he went too far with Finn doesn't mean we aren't being shown his flaws.

    For the first time in this show Kurt actually IS a character and not just a side comedic character like he was most of Season 1.

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