Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1
    Kostner Softie
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,532
    vCash
    467077
    Rep Power
    1318

    Steps Cheat Sheet

    Hey everyone! I was hoping to have a quick cheat sheet of what some steps actually are in my quest of slowly learning steps on the ice. I just want to focus on 1-foot turns, and I have 2 quick questions to ask. The first one I can understand is subjective, but generally speaking, what is the difficulty ranking of the 4 major steps? I believe 3-turns are the easiest 1-foot turns, but how would someone generally rank brackets, counters, and rockers?

    My 2nd question is a bit more involving: what are the definition of these stpes? All I'm looking for is an example of how to perform these steps. ie, for a 3-turn, and example is to be on a right inside edge, turn counter-clockwise (following the rotation of the edge) and be on the right back outside edge. What is an example of a bracket, counter, and rocker?

    Also, are there other types of 1-ffot turns that I missed?

    THANK YOU great and knowledgable FSU peeps

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    4,403
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1080
    First Question: I'm not sure, I think counters would generally be considered the hardest but like you said, it really depends on the person.

    Second Question: Using your example...A Bracket from a right forward inside edge, turn clockwise and exit on a right back outside edge. A Rocker from a right forward inside edge, turn anti clockwise and exit on a right back inside edge. A Counter from a right forward inside edge, turn clockwise, exit on a right back inside edge. This article has a diagram http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

    Another one foot turn is a loop, although it doesn't turn as such. The edge gets pulled round in a small tear drop shape and exits the same way you went in.

  3. #3
    Kostner Softie
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,532
    vCash
    467077
    Rep Power
    1318
    Thank you thank you thank you!!! EXACTLY what I was looking for

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    47
    Posts
    17,726
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15832
    Difficulty depends on the skater and also whether they find inside or outside turns more difficult or back turns more difficult.

    I generally find counters easier than rockers. And then brackets harder than both of those. Then those I do on my left foot easier than my right. And then the backward versions of all them more difficult than the forward versions.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,453
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    And the USFSA considers the difficulty (lowest to highest) as 3-turn, bracket , counter, rocker.

    You can follow a formula for turns:

    3turn: (edge) natural rotation (opposite edge)
    bracket: (edge) counter rotation (opposite edge)
    counter: (edge) counter rotation (same edge)
    rocker: (edge) natural rotation (same edge)

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South of New York City
    Posts
    2,061
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Sk8stuff.com has descriptions and illustrations.

    One-foot turns: http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_turns_1_foot.htm

    Two-foot turns: http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_turns_2_foot.htm

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    587
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by vesperholly View Post
    And the USFSA considers the difficulty (lowest to highest) as 3-turn, bracket , counter, rocker.

    You can follow a formula for turns:

    3turn: (edge) natural rotation (opposite edge)
    bracket: (edge) counter rotation (opposite edge)
    counter: (edge) counter rotation (same edge)
    rocker: (edge) natural rotation (same edge)
    In Canada, I suppose it could be seen as difficulty, but the steps focused on from lowest to highest skills are:

    3turn
    bracket & loops
    rocker
    counter

    I personally find some rockers harder than counters in general, some loops are also quite tricky cause you want to do them without using the toepick.

  8. #8
    Kostner Softie
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,532
    vCash
    467077
    Rep Power
    1318
    Thank you all soooo much

    I'l be referring to this info for a loooong time to come! a couple of days ago while working on all my 3-turns, I started experimenting a bit, and did what I now realize is a counter with ease, but I didn't know what that step was called. The one I did was a left forward inside to left back inside turning counter clockwise. But before I move on, I want to master all my 3-turns first (The 3-turn that gave me the most trouble was the left back outside to left forward inside, but I'm finally getting the hang of it!)

    You guys rock

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    181
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    14
    Everyone I know who has broken a wrist has done it falling on a bracket, so I'll say that brackets would be the most difficult...

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,243
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    10899
    You can try all the one-foot turns on two feet to get the feel of how they rotate and what they upper body needs to do. Much safer than trying them on one foot right away. However, the placement of your weight over the blades will be much different than when you try them on one foot.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Once you have the 3 turns, the respective brackets come easily. Just remember to face the opposite direction than 3 turns.

  12. #12
    Kostner Softie
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,532
    vCash
    467077
    Rep Power
    1318
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    You can try all the one-foot turns on two feet to get the feel of how they rotate and what they upper body needs to do. Much safer than trying them on one foot right away. However, the placement of your weight over the blades will be much different than when you try them on one foot.
    Thanks! I completely forgot about the 2-feet exercise, even though I did it when I was first learning 3-turns! (And I agree, the 3-turn feels completely different on 1 foot, bu the upper body movement was more secure

    Quote Originally Posted by jjane45 View Post
    Once you have the 3 turns, the respective brackets come easily. Just remember to face the opposite direction than 3 turns.
    Thanks! I don't know why, but it seams to me that getting the respective counters would be easier, but again I've only attempted one type of counter, and never a rocker or a bracket, so what do I know needless to say, it would be a while before I commit to learning a new step. now I'm just enjoying the progress of my 3-turns

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,453
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by wouldacoulda View Post
    Everyone I know who has broken a wrist has done it falling on a bracket, so I'll say that brackets would be the most difficult...
    I sprained my ankle on a rocker stupid Novice moves ...

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,243
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    10899
    Today I taught my coach how to do a closed outside mohawk. Of course she did it better than I can.

    But I took some ice dance lessons a decade ago, and she always did singles.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    neck deep & stuck fast
    Posts
    991
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jjane45 View Post
    Once you have the 3 turns, the respective brackets come easily. Just remember to face the opposite direction than 3 turns.
    ymmv, but for most people this isn't the case. Brackets are not very intuitive & are usually cheated at first & take a lot of practice to get them to be true brackets, and also to not feel like you're going to die while doing them--especially the fwd outsides & back outsides.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by backspin View Post
    ymmv, but for most people this isn't the case. Brackets are not very intuitive & are usually cheated at first & take a lot of practice to get them to be true brackets, and also to not feel like you're going to die while doing them--especially the fwd outsides & back outsides.
    I first had them in group lessons and it seems everyone managed to do resonably well in the first 30 minutes (both feet, both edges, forward and backward). Even though the instructor did not pick much on us, I certainly cannot tell if we cheated or not.Would you mind elaborating what is the most common ways for beginners to cheat brackets? Which part of the tracing would look wrong compared to a true bracket? Thank you very much!
    Last edited by jjane45; 11-24-2010 at 10:29 PM.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Age
    55
    Posts
    659
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It's pretty common to change edge before the actual turn, so that the "bracket" is really a three-turn in disguise.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    neck deep & stuck fast
    Posts
    991
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jjane45 View Post
    I first had them in group lessons and it seems everyone managed to do resonably well in the first 30 minutes (both feet, both edges, forward and backward). Even though the instructor did not pick much on us, I certainly cannot tell if we cheated or not.Would you mind elaborating what is the most common ways for beginners to cheat brackets? Which part of the tracing would look wrong compared to a true bracket? Thank you very much!
    Agree w/ Clarice; most people when learning change the edge at the last moment. You won't feel it; you have to go back & examine the tracing to see if it's right. You'll see a sway in the edge just before the turn.

    Considering that brackets are an Intermediate moves element, and considering that most skaters who are at that level work for months to get them right, it's doubtful that an entire group class got them correct in 30 minutes.....

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,453
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jjane45 View Post
    Would you mind elaborating what is the most common ways for beginners to cheat brackets? Which part of the tracing would look wrong compared to a true bracket? Thank you very much!
    I'd say the most common error is doing the bracket on a flat. Typically this is when skaters are just learning them, and doing them from hardly any glide at all. Next common would be changing the edge so it's more like a 3-turn, which stems from a concerted effort to get off the flats. Then you'll have skaters who get one part but not the other correct - the entrance is checked fine but the exit is the wrong edge, they can't hold either the entrance edge, etc.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Thank you everyone for the comments on brackets! I noticed that my tracing is not as symmetric as I would like it to be, with the exit edge sometimes being wonky on particular turns. But will certainly check for edge change the next time I skate on clean ice!

    My cheat sheet should indicate the free leg position for different turns. It's usually difficult for me to figure out when does free leg go in front and when tucked behind, lol.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •