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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    To even remotedly justify the judges willing to make the winner of all events even with 4 falls over top skaters who skate pretty cleanly Chan would have to be much better than everyone else in all aspects, especialy in all PC aspects. So just saying he can interpret music pretty well or perform pretty well is not nearly good enough, he has to be absolutely out of the World great at it and everything else like he supposably is/maybe is in things like skating skills and transitional complexity if you want any rational minded majority to just come forward and say "yeah it is fine if Chan wins all event with 4 falls since he is so superior".


    And since Chan is clearly not head and shoulders better than everyone else in every department he does not merit victories with 4 falls, not at all. And the complains over his grossly inflated scores will continue until it stops, even if that is until the day he retires from eligiible skating or the day figure skating goes extinct as a sport (whichever comes first is this kind of farce scoring and uninspiring skating as we have seen so far this fall, especialy for the men, continues much longer).

    And what a joke any of you try to bring Takahashi into the fray. Takahashi is nowhere near as overscored as Chan is so far this season anyway. If the judges applies the same thinking to Takahashi as they do with Chan he would have won the Olympic Gold easily last year with his only one fall.

    I am not JUSTIFYING anything. I am stating the facts

    How the judges see it is what determines the results = FACT
    The mandatory deductions are being applied for Chan's falls = FACT
    Opinions about performance and interpretation are subjective = FACT
    Only the opinions of the judges in these areas affect the outcome = FACT

    And then I gave my opinion as well - In my opionon Chan does interpret the music very well (not pretty well) and nearly always continues to do so despite falls and whether or not he falls does not take away from his skating skills. Because of this - he will deserve more points than others who skate more cleanly. Again - this is my OPINION and I have a right to it.

    And - you may want to read my post again to discover I was not trying to bring Takahashi into any fray. I mention him as a skater who IMO is superior in enough areas to other skaters that he can and should win over skaters who may skate "cleaner" than him. Overscored is your word - not mine - and I have never found Takahashi - my favourite eligible male skater right now- to be overscored - though I might have liked him to be at the Olympics last year.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifice View Post
    But hopefully he will remain an exception, so that it won't become a pattern for skaters to be excellent in skating skills and lacking of consistency in the jump area.
    Because figure skating is not ice dancing, if skaters start to win even without the jumps it will become dangerous for the futur of the sport.
    Well, I hope we will see many skaters as Patrick Chan. Because if there are more exceptional skaters, those skaters will have to skate clean to win.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Well, I hope we will see many skaters as Patrick Chan. Because if there are more exceptional skaters, those skaters will have to skate clean to win.
    The other exceptional skaters wont have Skate Canada buying their marks for them.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by piano18 View Post
    I just love his skating. So brilliant skills. Do not care for Oda, Rippon, Abbot.
    If Chan has so brilliant skills, why he falls so often? Isn't remain upright a skill too?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by lily View Post
    If Chan has so brilliant skills, why he falls so often? Isn't remain upright a skill too?
    He falls with such class and elegance. The judges love his falls, they serve as artistic highlights to the choreography and program. In a way they are a part of his creative "transitions". The more of those very artistic and elegant falls he can insert in his program, the higher his PCS will go as they are so beautiful to watch.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    He falls with such class and elegance. The judges love his falls, they serve as artistic highlights to the choreography and program. In a way they are a part of his creative "transitions". The more of those very artistic and elegant falls he can insert in his program, the higher his PCS will go as they are so beautiful to watch.
    Well, he does use his whole body when he falls, so that should count extra in SS, right?

  7. #67

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    I actually like Patrick Chan a lot. I'm undecided as to whether I think he is overscored. I think maybe just a teensy bit. His feet are amazing, but his upper body is still kind of stiff, like Johnny noted at the last Worlds. It's like he's sacrificing the upper half in favor of focusing on the lower half, and that doesn't entirely work for me. Even so, the use of his upper body is better than last season, so it looks like he is working on that.

    On another note, has Patrick ever skated a clean competition? His programs look insanely difficult, so he's really rolling the dice when he goes out there to compete. Hard to land everything when the programs are jampacked with nonstop footwork and transitions. Does he need more breathing spots in his freeskate?
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by luCN View Post
    You are quite right. Many people don't know that much about figure skating rules.They just think people who didn't fall should get the highest point,even they sucked on other elements or step out the jumps.It's a pity.
    Agreed! and unfortunately, it seems that we have quite a lot of these people here on FSU ironically!

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    Agreed! and unfortunately, it seems that we have quite a lot of these people here on FSU ironically!
    Oh, here we go again, people have different opinions and that means they don't understand skating.

    My point with Chan is that while he does have the best basics, they are not so much better than Takahashi or Abbot that he should win with 3 and 4 falls. Now, based on the skating in these two GP events, I'm not 100 percent sure it is that unrealistic, but I don't think this will or should happen at Worlds. I realize that falling in COP is far less significant than it was in 6.0, but to say that people don't understand the rules because they want to see the winner skate clean is a little far fetched.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

  10. #70
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    I think Abbott needs to skate with alot more conviction than he currently is to even win a medal at Worlds let alone be considered for the gold. He skated decently so far except his LP in Russia. However he looks tenative and nervous, he isnt pushing the programs out with speed and confidence like Takahashi or Chan inspite of their mistakes, he isnt performing as well as he can, his jump landings arent great right now, and his spins currently need alot of improvement. As he is skating now he wont beat Takahashi or Chan unless they bomb, even if the judges somehow come back to earth on Chan, and he will have a hard time beating several of the others if they skate to their potential.

  11. #71
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    If you read all of the post about Chan there is one thing that everyone agree's on (Chan's skating skills are the best in the world). Now you add his Quad combo (best jump in the world) into the equation. That being said justifies his scoring.

    At the end of the day Chan is the best skater in the world and the judges know it!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by blade runner View Post
    If you read all of the post about Chan there is one thing that everyone agree's on (Chan's skating skills are the best in the world). Now you add his Quad combo (best jump in the world) into the equation.
    Not really. That alone does not justify him being 4 falls better than everyone else. He isnt the only guy doing a quad, and he isnt clearly the best at anything other than possibly skating skills. I guess Yuka Sato skated in the wrong era, she would be able to fall 4 times and beat all the women she couldnt beat in her own era even skating well normally, after all she has the best skating skills.

  13. #73
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    CHAN CHAN CHAN!!

  14. #74
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    The best skater, NAH! The most flawed, ABSOLUTELY!

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by luCN View Post
    They just think people who didn't fall should get the highest point,even they sucked on other elements or step out the jumps.It's a pity.
    Ok, so now show me how Verner sucked so much on other elements, that it justified Chan almost winning with him with his 4 falls

    I just don't get it. Many people act like Verner is a random middle-level skater, who has no skating skills, no interpretation abilities, no choreography, his jumping technique is so awful and he doesn't know how to land a triple while Chan's jumps are so difficult. Duh.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Accordion View Post
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa a

    1/ You can think all you want to that Chan does not interpret or skate to his music - but that does not make it a FACT any more than me thinking he DOES a fact. Nor will either of our opinons have an impact on results. However, judges thinking that he does - has an impact on their scores. So if you are absolutely sure that he does not interpret the music - and want to have an impact on the results - become a judge.

    2/As with number one - you can complain all you want to about the falls not having enough impact on the scores but here is a little newsflash:

    - There are mandatory deductions for falls and they are being applied. Don't think they are high enough? Let someone know - find a way to have a voice with the ISU but that still doesn't make it Chan's fault and therefore brings no truth to Chan is overscored theories.

    -You can think all you want to that the PE and SS marks should be affected. But there is no rule or mandatory deduction for falls in these categories. Again not his fault nor unique to him. So that brings it back to being up the judges whether or not they think these categories have been negatively affected. The judges seem to believe that despite the falls that these are still high quality. So again - become a judge who can say otherwise if you want.

    I happen to agree with the judges that Chan deserves high marks for these categories as any time I have seen him - other than the 3 seconds of the 150 or 270 second program he spends with his butt on the ice - his skating skills are unbelievably strong and IMO he continues to interpret the themes and music. However, as with you - my opinion has no bearing on the outcome - I guess it just results in less anger in these situations - but more dreading of reading FSU threads whenever he wins with mistakes.

    ETA - and this is not a Canadian thing for me - it is a skater quality thing. There are are a few skaters who IMO often deserve to win over others who skate "cleaner" programs due to their superior skating skills. Some others who come to mind are Takahashi, Lambiel, Yuna Kim, Pairs S and S (and I don't even love their skating but I recognize their superiority), Z and S, Davis and White.
    It's a long way to climb from the Trash Can to the judging monitor
    But " interpretation of music" is not such a subjective category as you are making it out to be; it requires reacting to line, phrasing, rhythm, tempi, dynamic changes, mood, and of course there are " intangibles" as well. It actually can be analyzed. Linking to the article on "judged sports" that was posted in GSD earlier, I understand that it is quite difficult to separate so many categories in such a short time, and judges are going by " overall impression", which in Patrick's case is dominated by amazing footwork. So many times it was told about the second mark "It is not Artistic mark anymore, it is different". Now it has categories. Right now SS and TR categories dominate, and others are simply lined up to be close to them. Then why have them?

  17. #77
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    I respect Chan's skills and I LOVE Verner, but in all honesty I can't argue with the SS, TR and CH scores for these two. Verner's program is much simpler in comparison and he rests and dances too much in contrast with all the blade work Chan does.

    In the free skate, given the falls, I would probably give Verner a 1 point advantage over Chan for both PE and IN, but that would only give Verner 4 more points. Something tells me this crowd will still not be happy. And in this scenario I would rather think Verner was underscored instead of Chan was overscored.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by lily View Post
    If Chan has so brilliant skills, why he falls so often? Isn't remain upright a skill too?
    Skating skills- Edgework similar what Marco has said above me.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    I just don't get it. Many people act like Verner is a random middle-level skater, who has no skating skills, no interpretation abilities, no choreography, his jumping technique is so awful and he doesn't know how to land a triple while Chan's jumps are so difficult. Duh.
    I don't remember reading this- Where is this displayed?

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    Patrick Chan deserves his scores about as much as Jackie Chan deserves an Oscar.

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