Silver and bronze medalists for men (behind Chan) at Worlds this year

[judgejudy27]

Which top skater had two clean programs? Verner was not clean and I can't take that program he has seriously anyway. I'm not even a huge fan of Chan but his programs as a whole are MILES ahead of Verner.

Sorry you are right. Chan was robbed today. He only had 4 falls in this event, he is so superior he should have needed atleast 6 to lose. The most underscored skater ever. My sympathy goes out to him.

[briancoogaert]

IMO, Chan, Takahashi, Verner, Abbott and Kozuka are going to be in the top 5 at Worlds (no particular order).

[briancoogaert]

Sorry you are right. Chan was robbed today. He only had 4 falls in this event, he is so superior he should have needed atleast 6 to lose. The most underscored skater ever. My sympathy goes out to him.

You forgot to send your sympathy to him and his family.

[museksk8r]

It's really too bad that the judges have to begrudgingly award the other 2 medals to a different skater than Chan when it's so obvious they want to award him everything. They can always prostitute themselves to him I guess.

[bek]

IMO, Chan, Takahashi, Verner, Abbott and Kozuka are going to be in the top 5 at Worlds (no particular order).

I actually have to disagree, I think that all five skaters have proven to be extremely inconsistent at the big moments and its more than likely that a great jumper will make his way into the top 5.

I'm curious to see if Brezina has overcome his preseason/injury woes. Yes he had some consistency issues early this season, but it was early in the season, and I still think Michal's a better competitor than a lot of those guys you mentioned, and since he does have some charisma/personality he could be extremely dangerous.

[judgejudy27]

Oda is skating well and looks like a contender as well. Though given her history I would be surprised if he medals at Worlds. All I can say for sure is Takahashi and Chan will be on that World podium not matter how they skate, so that leaves only 1 medal for the other guys.

[bek]

Oda is skating well and looks like a contender as well. Though given her history I would be surprised if he medals at Worlds. All I can say for sure is Takahashi and Chan will be on that World podium not matter how they skate, so that leaves only 1 medal for the other guys.

Oda absolutely can be a factor, but lets face it Oda has a history of making stupid mistakes at the top moments. I'd love to see Oda at least get a world medal, he's way too talented not too but...

I don't think we can say Daisuke/Chan will be on the podium for sure. My gut says that there has been enough screaming and outrage of what's been going on in the scores, that the judges are eventually going to have to respond, especially in the case of Patrick. Maybe it won't happen at this years worlds, but it will happen eventually.

[briancoogaert]

I actually have to disagree, I think that all five skaters have proven to be extremely inconsistent at the big moments and its more than likely that a great jumper will make his way into the top 5.

I'm curious to see if Brezina has overcome his preseason/injury woes. Yes he had some consistency issues early this season, but it was early in the season, and I still think Michal's a better competitor than a lot of those guys you mentioned, and since he does have some charisma/personality he could be extremely dangerous.

Dangerous, maybe, but he is injured ! That's why I didn't count him. Dont know about his recovery.
And about his charisma, I find him a bit unpolished. Even if his SP this season seemed better than his programs from last season !

[sk8er1964]

Although I don't think it's Chan's to lose, I did vote in the poll. Nobody gave Adam any lurve, and he's so cute somebody had to! The judges should give him +3 cuteness awards on all his elements!

[pinky166]

I assume Dai and Patrick will be on the podium if they skate well. And then the final spot will be between: Oda, Kozuka, Abbott, Verner, Brezina, Joubert, Rippon. That's a lot of men to fight for one spot on the podium. And that is excluding spoiler like Reynolds if he does 2 quads in the SP and then 3 in the LP and manages not to pop his axels.

[judgejudy27]

Reynolds on the podium? I would be pretty surprised but I guess crazier things have happened. I hope for a top 10 from him this year, and top 6 would be amazing. Thank goodness the useless Chipeur has retired who had the CSA had a bizarre lovefest with, so Reynolds can now be promoted as our #2.

[senorita]

Let Kozuka get a world medal at last and I dont care then if Chan is on the podium with 84 falls, one for each pcs point he gets.

Some people said it correct, Takahashi is stupid to fall once in Olympics, 3 more falls and he would have been Olympic Champion now. D

[mia joy]

He would have won today over one of the top skaters with 2 clean programs with 4 falls if he didnt do an extra combination.

That is just riddiculous... Next time we won't have an Olympic champion without a quad, we will have one who does a bunch of quads and falls on all of them and then he'll fall on a couple of triples, but hey, they will all be fully rotated and the guy will have such amazing edges!

And that is excluding spoiler like Reynolds if he does 2 quads in the SP and then 3 in the LP and manages not to pop his axels.

Poor Reynolds has no chances of beating Chan even if he does 10 quads in the event...

[Clytie]

Poor Reynolds has no chances of beating Chan even if he does 10 quads in the event...

OK I am assuming this is sarcastic? I do get that Patrick scoring this high is a somewhat of joke. At the same time I think back to Grishuk and Platov and the early nineties falling on their butts and coming in the top 3 of the worlds I think I was shocked. A fall in ice dance and you win a medal? Back then when ice dance looked so much easier to me without any jumps. But then Paul Martini of all people(not exactly diplomatic) said that G and P were so far superior in terms of skating skills ahead of anyone else that is did'nt matter if they fell. They deserved to place where they did. That was my skating wake up call. In other words, even if I could'nt see it there were some skaters that were so mind-blowing only the judges could see their brillance. Grishuk and Platov were such skaters apparently so is Chan. I like both but honestly do not see their breath taking beyond others ability.

I also have to add I remember Kurt falling on his a** during his short program at the 92 Olympics. The judges put him 4th - a total gift. I also think B and S got a gift at the 1998 Olympics. Its not like this has never happened before, even under 6.0. Certain skaters being held up. I just think with Chan its so more obvious with so few reasons most of us, who even like him, can see. And of course COP is supposed to eliminate all this. When it comes to human judging I am of the opinion this is impossible to be total nonbias. Its why eye witness evidence is so notiously unreliable in court cases. Of course it gives us skating fans endless fodder for bit**ing though.

[judgejudy27]

Falling once and winning a bronze cant really be equated to falling a whole bunch of times and winning golds.

[bek]

Falling once and winning a bronze cant really be equated to falling a whole bunch of times and winning golds.

Heck, I'd even say falling once and winning the competition, isn't the same as falling four times and winning. I've got no issue with G/P being allowed to win with a mistake, even a major one. And I have no issue with Patrick Chan winning the short program with one major mistake. But the concept that of Patrick having a 3fall cushion is just incredible to me. Why bother even having jumps then?

And Judy I have to say in defense of Patrick's jumps getting high GOE, that Chan actually does have really difficult entrances going in and out of most of his jumps...

I just don't understand why people keep on comparing Patrick winning with 3 falls, to other skaters winning with one fall. There's a HUGE difference between one fall-and three falls.

[Clytie]

Honestly I am not trying to get into an argument just trying to generate some discussion to clear up my confusion.

I just don't understand why people keep on comparing Patrick winning with 3 falls, to other skaters winning with one fall. There's a HUGE difference between one fall-and three falls.

But what I talked about was during the early nineties when practically no one in ice-dance fell.(Unlike say the Torino OD) To see Grishuk and Platov fall and win a medal was shocking. Shae and Vic fell at the end of their Olympic 2002 program and lost a bronze. Even to the Italians who did not have a perfect skate. But people argued they were better. When is a fall or falls considered to so significant that they destroy a program? Do the rules dictate when a fall or falls should be considered so significant that a program should be considered a failure? And marked accordingly.

I am not saying what is going on with Patrick is right. I don't think it is. I know his skating skills are fantastic. Even as just a viewer I can see that he does things fewer other skates do - skate in both directions, covers the ice well, takes almost no rest breaks. Do I think that entitles him to win with 3 falls? No. But at the same time I have been hoping that good spins, good footwork and good interpretation would be rewarded. Along with good jumps. I am not sure that we will ever get to a system that does that. I am personally happy Tomas won COR. The fact that he won it because Patrick did too many combos, to me does not sit well. He skated better overall and the score should reflect that. I don't think there is any kind of Chan-Aid going on per say but the marking is strange. Of course having watched skating for over 20 years I often find myself shaking my head. COP has not changed that. I did love that it gave Jeff Buttle a world title in 2008. I am still not sure 6.0 would have. Paul Wylie seemed shocked by it.

[judgejudy27]

Bourne and Kraatz are not at the level of Gritschuk & Platov, even a younger Gritschuk & Platov. A team like Bourne & Kraatz will definitely not medal with a fall at a World or Olympic event since there are multiple top teams either their level or better. They are a team that has to skate at their top level to have a shot of a medal.

I think you are referring to the 1992 Worlds perhaps? Well at those Worlds yes G&P took a fall and stayed in 3rd, but Usova & Zhulin had a worse fall than Gritschuk & Platov and still easily held onto their 2nd place silver. For the record I didnt disagree with any of those results. With the Duchensays out the 3 Soviet teams were far better than the rest. G&P being behind their teammates and the Duchensays the last 2 years had not yet won a World medal so it wasnt so much that the judges considered them that amazing at that point, just that they were that much better than a team like Callegeri & Camerlengo (who were yet another overrated Italian dance team and should have never been above teams like Rahkammo & Kokko and Moniotte & Lavancy this year anyway, let alone winning a medal). Then at the 94 Worlds Gritschuk & Platov won with a quick fall but the silver and bronze medalists from the Olympics and their main 2 rivals Usova & Zhulin and Torvill & Dean were both absent. Had either been there that probably would have cost them the gold considering how close all 3 were this season, but as it was it was, it was understandable they still won. Moniotte & Lavanchy who were only 5th at the Olympics which G&P had won received marks very close and took 2 1st place votes off G&P, so it is not like the judges ignored the one quick fall either. That is the only time Iever remember M&L coming close to beating G&P.

As for Bourne & Kraatz vs the Italians in 2002, I actually prefered B&K's free dance performance since their fall was less disruptive and the Italians were a bit of a mess. However the Italians were the reigning World Champions so the knockout theory was in effect, B&K couldnt realistically expect to fall themselves right after the Italians opened that door. And anyway neither team really deserved the bronze, Drobiazko & Vanagas clearly were robbed of atleast the bronze in SLC.

[Cheylana]

Eh, wasn't Patrick a surefire bet to win 2009 Worlds? Yet there Patrick skated a cautious but clean short program and got buried in third behind Joubert and Lysacek. And he only moved up to silver because Joubert forgot how to land his double axel in the free.

[judgejudy27]

Eh, wasn't Patrick a surefire bet to win 2009 Worlds? Yet there Patrick skated a cautious but clean short program and got buried in third behind Joubert and Lysacek. And he only moved up to silver because Joubert forgot how to land his double axel in the free.

Good, hopefully the thread will blow up in my face as some of my past threads have. That is my wish anyway in this case.

Funny how once upon a time a couple small mistakes could lost Chan a gold medal. Now all of a sudden 4 falls cant lose it for him. You would think his skating had improved by mountains and valleys since then, when really expect for adding the quad it is just the same, but with weaker triple jumping now.