"...some people are moulded by their admiration, others by their hostilities.”
― Elizabeth Bowen, The Death of the Heart
From 2004 to 2008 Weir won 4 grand prix events, medalled in 9 of the 10 grand prix events he was in, won a World bronze in 2008, was 4th at Worlds in 2005, and was 2nd after the short program at the 2008 Olympics although ultimately dropping to 5th. He definitely was a serious contender during that time, in a way Abbott has never yet established himself.
Serious headcase, maybe. Seldom did a third combination in his LP, never did a clean quad in competition AFAIK, struggled to reach the top levels on his spins and steps, never managed to include choreography or transitions that would compensate for his TES shortcomings, tried to package himself as a Russophile even though his skating style was quintessentially American, and generally went down in the standings at major international competitions after the SP because his LP's were never good enough.
So in the context of a discussion about Abbott, Weir is somehow a headcase. Umm ok Weir actually was the most consistent skater last season. He was the only one who did 2 clean programs at the Grand Prix final, was one of the only ones to do 2 clean programs at the Olympics, did 2 clean programs in his 2nd GP outing, almost did 2 clean programs at Nationals. Unfortunately he wasnt a major contender at that point anymore. Weir has underperformed in a variety of ways, but not to the extent of Abbott who has done nothing other than crash and burn hard in important events except for the 2010 Nationals and 09 GP final, and respectable but not outstanding showings at the 09 Nationals and 2010 Worlds.
Ah, but it's not "my new definition" -- it's my interpretation of your definition. If you meant that "Adam [not Jeremy] is hardly that strong...", I would point out that Rippon has won 3 of the 4 ISU Championships in which he has competed (Junior Worlds twice and Four Continents last season) and placing 6th at 2010 Worlds (5th in the FS) is a very respectable debut, IMO. However, Lysacek's bronze medal in his Worlds debut in 2005 is still the best showing of any recent U.S. man. ETA the recent Worlds debut placements:And you are right Rippon and Mroz are unproven in that regard. What we do know is Jeremy is hardly that strong in your new definition of better skater (World and Olympic showings). Rippon at his 1st Worlds missed matching Abbotts best placing in 4 combined World and Olympics by 1 spot.
Weir 5th in 2004 (as National champ)
Lysacek 3rd in 2005 (3rd at Nationals)
Bradley 15th in 2007 (2nd at Nationals)
Carriere 10th in 2008 (3rd at Nationals)
Abbott 11th in 2008 (4th at Nationals, went as alternate)
Mroz 9th in 2009 (2nd at Nationals)
Rippon 6th in 2010 (5th at Nationals, went as alternate)
Last edited by Sylvia; 11-16-2010 at 06:09 PM.
But if we're drawing comparisons, let's note that Weir and Abbott's career ISU Personal Bests (238.87 at the 2010 Olympics and 237.72 at the 2009 Grand Prix Final, respectively) are virtually the same. The salient difference for me is that Abbott showed at 2010 U.S Nationals that he can skate better than that, whereas none of Weir's performances at Nationals, even those under 6.0, was significantly better than his performance in Vancouver.
So Abbotts best skating is better than Weir (I actually agree with that) yet despite this Weir has had a far more successful career to date. So who is the bigger headcase.
I don't think we can compare success "to date," it's apples and oranges. Johnny had 8 full seasons on the senior international level. Jeremy has had four. Johnny didn't medal at Worlds until his fifth try. Jeremy has only been to three Worlds, so he still has two more tries before he can be declared washed up
ETA: It's also worth noting that Johnny had a robust career on the junior circuit, where he was able to pick up valuable experience before going senior. Thanks to his late bloomer situation, Jeremy never got the benefit of JGP events or even a trip to Junior Worlds. I just think it's all apples and oranges.
Last edited by Cheylana; 11-17-2010 at 05:55 PM.
"Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode
I forgot what the poll was about, but it's clearly Jeremy's title to loose. Nobody in that field can challenge his skating skills.
I'd like Armin to make the team. I'm starting to become a fan, and I like his Avatar Lp more than the movie (perhaps cauze it's 3 hours shorter)
I voted "Other" - Johnny Weir surprises everyone and shows up to defend his podium spot and ends up winning with his great PCS scores. [Unless whatever comes out in his tell-all book results in a lifetime USFSA ban.]
Or Armin "pulls a Mirai-2008" and blows the lid off the event, winning his first national title.
Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "With them it's all about the most movement per measure." (commenting on Bestemianova/Bukin, during the 1988 Olympics, Calgary)
If you're including Mroz, you could add Mahbanoozadeh to this (not that I think either will win really)
I voted Mroz.
Just a feeling.
eta: I think NMURA just put my feeling to words below.
Last edited by casken; 11-18-2010 at 06:16 AM.